Track of the Wolf Kits

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satwel

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Little squeamish on getting the lock just right to meet the touch hole in the barrel, getting the alignment right.
If you decide to go with a TOTW kit, call and ask them if the stock is available without the lock pre-inlet. Building the kit is easier when you have the freedom to place the lock anywhere you want relative to the vent. I have built three TOTW kits, the French D style trade gun, the 1742 Long Land Pattern musket and most recently their Jaeger rifle kit. They all turned out quite nice. With the French trade gun, I ordered the stock without the lock pre- inlet. On the Brown Bess the alignment was fine. The Jaeger required some extra work to get the pan and vent into proper alignment.
 

billraby

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Sounds like the Kibler kit might be the way to go for you. It can give you a taste of what is involved in building and you will see how everything goes together. From there you can go on to other projects. There are a lot of videos out there. Watch the Kibler videos and see what goes into building one of those. The 4 bore rifle would be a rather advanced project. Then there is everything in between. The different videos can give you an idea of what you want to get yourself into.

If you want to go with building, realize that you are always going to learn the most when you go outside of your comfort zone. On the 4 bore rifle there are a good number of things that I am doing for the first time. Kind of funny. The first time I am doing it I am also making a video about how to do it. People get nervous about building because they worried they will screw it up. So what? Nobody is going to hit you in the head with board every time you make a mistake. And just about every mistake you make can be fixed.

Here is how I look at it. Building from a blank or a Track of the Wolf kit will cost about $800 to $1000. Going on a cruise will cost a lot more than that. When the cruise is over its all done. You got nothing. Maybe a t-shirt. You spent your money on entertainment. That is what gun building is. You are not buying a gun. You are buying the chance to spend 100 to 200 hours relaxing in your workshop over a few months. When its all done you probably have a great gun. If you you screw it up you can give it to one of the grandkids. Then start on the next one.

All of us here that build guns do it because we enjoy doing it. I have not turned on a TV in over 10 years. Start off with something simple and get fancy after you have finished a few.
 

Crow Choker

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Goes the other order. Get your lock correct, then drill the hole. Easy.
Yep, thanks for the reminder. What I meant was just getting the proper fit/alignment. I may just take a road trip to Track and look over their kits and talk with them. Has been a while since I've been that far north into Minnesota. Not discounting Kibler's kit though by any means.
 

Crow Choker

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Kibler would be a relatively easy kit for a beginner but no, their Colonial doesn't come in 36 caliber as most pre Rev War long guns would not have.
Without having been properly educated over the years on alot of flint rifle information maybe I've been sort of wrongly informed, can't say. I sort of recall reading that many of the pre 1800 rifles were in smaller calibers also, 45 and below. Getting the right books will help. Maybe someone can write a paragraph response on what caliber the majority of them were or provide me a link. Would appreciate it. Still want a 36 caliber rifle though, 40 would work also.

When I first started shooting cap and ball back in '72 and reading some and looking at flint rifles, I always dreamed of making a flinter. Was just thinking ifin' I had back then and continued to do so, I'd be a seasoned builder by now. My first and only muzzle loader is my TC Hawken 45 caliber which I still have. I did cut off the trigger guard spur which I didn't care for and used cold bluing to darken all the brass, refinished the stock also which looks better now than when I bought it. I still shoot around a dozen cap revolvers and three cartridge Colt open top conversions (44 Colt) that all I shoot out of them are cast 200 grainers and black FF. Enjoy much!!!!!
Thank you 'billraby' for your latest posting. I've the necessary patience to do a build, I always do the old adage of 'measure twice, cut once'-take it alot to measure 'multiple times to make it right, then do' on my projects no matter what it is. Have faith in myself to do a kit, but I'm a perfectionist at heart and mind and don't want to mess up a $800-1200 kit gun with a wrong move.
 
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kje54

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Without having been properly educated over the years on alot of flint rifle information maybe I've been sort of wrongly informed, can't say. I sort of recall reading that many of the pre 1800 rifles were in smaller calibers also, 45 and below. Getting the right books will help. Maybe someone can write a paragraph response on what caliber the majority of them were or provide me a link. Would appreciate it. Still want a 36 caliber rifle though, 40 would work also.

When I first started shooting cap and ball back in '72 and reading some and looking at flint rifles, I always dreamed of making a flinter. Was just thinking ifin' I had back then and continued to do so, I'd be a seasoned builder by now. My first and only muzzle loader is my TC Hawken 45 caliber which I still have. I did cut off the trigger guard spur which I didn't care for and used cold bluing to darken all the brass, refinished the stock also which looks better now than when I bought it. I still shoot around a dozen cap revolvers and three cartridge Colt open top conversions (44 Colt) that all I shoot out of them are cast 200 grainers and black FF. Enjoy much!!!!!
Thank you 'billraby' for your latest posting. I've the necessary patience to do a build, I always do the old adage of 'measure twice, cut once'-take it alot to measure 'multiple times to make it right, then do' on my projects no matter what it is. Have faith in myself to do a kit, but I'm a perfectionist at heart and mind and don't want to mess up a $800-1200 kit gun with a wrong move.
From what I've gleaned from the people on this site and in other research is most pre Rev War guns were somewhat large caliber smoothbore fowlers. Apparently with American flintlock rifles the most common calibers were .40 to .48 as these were primarily hunting guns. If my recollection is correct I believe the smaller (smaller than .40 caliber) mostly came about after the Rev War but most likely existed in limited numbers prior to that. I believe the smaller caliber rifles have primarily been attributed to the economic crisis of the 1780s at the end of the war as the economy was in a shambles and people couldn't afford many items they could before. Add to that our ability to manufacture powder was mediocre at best having relied on France and Holland for most of our powder throughout the Revolution making powder fairly expensive even after the war.

If I'm wrong here someone please correct me.
 

billraby

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Thank you 'billraby' for your latest posting. I've the necessary patience to do a build, I always do the old adage of 'measure twice, cut once'-take it alot to measure 'multiple times to make it right, then do' on my projects no matter what it is. Have faith in myself to do a kit, but I'm a perfectionist at heart and mind and don't want to mess up a $800-1200 kit gun with a wrong move.
The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that don't do anything. And yes, you will make mistakes on your first rifle. And the second one. Also the 50th one. Its part of life. There are some people on here that are building amazing rifles. Every one of them had the their first rifle build. If it is something that you want to do, the best thing is to just go for it.
 

M. De Land

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The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that don't do anything. And yes, you will make mistakes on your first rifle. And the second one. Also the 50th one. Its part of life. There are some people on here that are building amazing rifles. Every one of them had the their first rifle build. If it is something that you want to do, the best thing is to just go for it.
Amen !
 

necchi

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I may just take a road trip to Track and look over their kits and talk with them. Has been a while since I've been that far north into Minnesota
Be mindfull they have that little shop open limited hrs,, an it ain't like driven "up-north" anymore. Where their at is just like the cities now. They're just on the north side of it! Your gonna have to drive through city traffic alone for an hour (or more) just to get too'm from the south. Count on making a day (maybe two) of it.
My drive ain't bad,, I'm 40 miles north, I can hit the north side without going through that mess.
An they don't have a "pre-made" box of any kit with all parts at all, until it's bought an boxed. They can show you the wood choices (if it's in stock) an you can choose which one you want, they can show the lock and barrel (if those are in stock),, same with choices of butt plate, triggers, tangs, patch boxes,, but only if in stock when you walk in door.
Best I can say is, Good luck with your choices, consider carefully and spend wisley
 

Crow Choker

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Thanks for the info 'necchi'-well taken. Calling ahead would be needed. I don't know why, I've never looked at a map to see where Elk River is located at. I always thought for some reason it was alot farther north. Map/googled it and see it is part of the Twin Cities mess. I always hate to see and hear of former nice towns and such succumbing to 'big city' deterioration. No offense to those of you that may be living in one. I detest driving in big city traffic and the impersonal feel about them. I see now 'necchi' what you meant by driving an hour or so through the city. I'll check out Track, but I have noticed when going on their site and clicking on some of the various options in regards to a certain rifle that alot of times certain parts are out of stock. The Kibler is looking better all of the time.
 

billraby

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From what I hear you might have to wait a while to get a Kibler kit also. Of course call to see how long it takes. That is just how it is with the muzzleloaders. Like necchi said, the kits are not all boxed up and ready to go. Its just a bunch of parts that they pull off the shelves. If you are looking for something specific you might have to wait on a few things. If you are not overly picky they could certainly put together a set of parts that will go together into a nice gun while you are there. You just have to call ahead. Give them idea of what you are looking for and see what they can do. It would be worth the drive just to pick out the wood.

My dad used to work right by Track of the Wold before he retired. Now he often asks me if I need anything from there just so has an excuse to go there. I used to live in one of the suburbs south of that horrible city. Minneapolis has certainly deteriorated. Stay off 35W. Loads of road work and all the local hippies decided that it is their new playground. I moved last month and now I live 15 miles from the nearest traffic light. It is wonderful!
 

FlinterNick

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from what I’ve been told, track kits often have to have parts sent back and their stocks are not done very well. I think Bob Lepply is doing their stocks still.
 

Crow-Feather

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Curious, haven't seen much talk about Tracks rifle kits. Is there a problem with them that everyone is steering away from them. Again, haven't read much from posters here about any 'high fives' with them. I've looked at Kibler's with alot of interest and see they get good reviews here. Only problem I have with them unless I'm not seeing the big picture is that with his Colonial kit, they are offered only in 50 plus caliber. The Southern Rifle kit has available the 36 caliber I desire, but is styled after rifles produced after 1800. I'm looking more for a style produced prior to the Revolutionary War as the Colonial kit is geared to. I don't know if Kibler offers a 36 caliber in the Colonial or not. Anyway, just wondering about Tracks rifle kits. Have looked for some time at Tracks Golden Age, Colonial, and Bucks County rifle kits. Appreciate any feedback.
[/QUOTE]

TVM has an Early Virginia kit (French and Indian War) that comes in 36 caliber and comes "in the white" or less than that.
 

Johnny Tremain

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With the exceptions of Kibler and Chambers everyone sells the same kits
Kibler, Chambers, and TOTW, are all better than most production gun sold today.
That is why I used Muzzle Loader Supply. They let you pick and choose every parts.
even have 3 grades of metal ware, gold, silver, and steel.

My rifle is a copy of a Virginia Sheetz rifle, but it is of my touches that make it mine.
When I used ramrod hangers from a older rifle, the gal that sold me the parts said:
"You can just tell folks they are off of your great grand pappies rifle."
So far in 16 years, no one has asked.

I picked them because they looked better than the ones for the Sheetz rifle.
 

Crow Choker

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From what I hear you might have to wait a while to get a Kibler kit also. Of course call to see how long it takes.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Called KIbler today and t/w Jim. Nice conversation, very friendly and helpful. 40 caliber Mountain Kit available within week or maybe a tad, 36 caliber around 4 weeks. Seriously considering. Looked at TVM also today as 'Crow-Feather' mentioned. (Wonder if we're related-Crow-Feather/Crow Choker, LOL. I've had this handle for around 50 years-long story) The TVM kits and rifles look nice, but as mentioned alot in other posts and other threads some advertised 'kits' have parts pulled from bins and many times are out of stock. Unless an outfit has all parts available at time of ordering OR can be sure to get them within a reasonable amount of time, I don't want to wait a unspecified amount of time to receive OR get a email/letter saying they are not going to be available.

For my first build I'd like all parts available and not have to wait or try to get from another source and maybe have to try and fit a part on a pre-inletted stock that was inletted for a part unavailable. I'd be more open to trying kits from Track and others on any possible future builds after I do one such as a Kibler that has a reputation for good quality, accurate pre-inletted stocks, and available parts.
Crow Choker[/QUOTE]
 
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Crow Choker

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OK, FWIW!!! Was going to do a new posting, but figured since my first ever thread where I inquired about TOW kits and others got things started, I'd just do a continuation. Back in mid July I ordered a 36 cal SMR from Kibler, was advised it would be around 6 weeks. Well yesterday, (09/03) I received a well packed SMR kit from Kibler. All looks good, can't wait to fire first shot, but I'm not going to rush or slam the kit together just to do that. I hesitated for a while in ordering as I was unsure and hesitate in going with a 36 or 40 caliber. Tossed the decision around, considered it from 360* angles, but finally went with the 36 as that is what I've always envisioned for years in getting a flint long rifle.

Won't start working on it right away as I'm in the process of finishing up a CVA 45 cal "Kentucky" flint kit I bought back in around 1977-78, think for around $50.00. Yup that's right some 44 years ago. Started it at the time, but never finished, to many forays into other black powder cap and conversion revolvers and smokeless rifles and handguns. Figured that flint pistol would be a good introduction for finishing a Kibler kit. About ready to brown the barrel and Aqua Fortis the maple stock. Hope to have it done within a week or a bit more. Anyway, Kibler kit is in house, have been reading up on the forum and a few others, plus several books on flint rifle making, soooooo'---don't plan on leaving the Kibler kit in storage for 40+ years before I start on it. WOW-I'd be 116!!!!! Thanks to all who gave their input!!!! Choker of Crows!!!
 

fishmusic

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As mentioned, there's Pecatonica with a little more variety than Track of the Wolf. Most kits are a collection of parts. Most will require a fairly large collection of hand tools and a drill press to complete.

Have you obtained any of the gun building books or tutorial videos available? Good books are "The Art of Building a Pennsylvania Long Rifle", Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle, an illustrated instruction manual, by Dixon, Ehrig, and Miller - Track of the Wolf or "The Gunsmith of Grenville County", The Gunsmith of Grenville County, Building the American Longrifle illustrated instruction manual, revised edition, spiral bound, by Peter A. Alexander - Track of the Wolf.

You can look for the video series by Bill Raby. You can choose from his series on Lancaster Rifles. Bill Raby - YouTube

Good choices for kits include Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply (longrifles-pr.com) , TVM, SHOWROOM | tvmsite (tvmnatchez.com), Jim Chambers, Jim Chambers Flintlocks , Caywood (mostly smooth bores), SOUTHERN MOUNTAIN RIFLE (caywoodguns.com),

Do learn about locks and what parts would be best for the build. German locks on an English style rifle or Colonial Style rifle are out of place.
Unfortunately Bill Raby got kicked off of you tube. You Tube didn't like the gun building and would not work with him. You can catch his 4 Bore build on Rumble. I am waiting on pins a needles for him to upload the Lancaster videos to Rumble. He says it takes a lot of bandwidth so it may be a while.
 

fishmusic

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Bill,

Do you plan on loading the Lancaster or Southern Rifle builds to Rumble.? Those were dynamite.
 

Crow Choker

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Unfortunately Bill Raby got kicked off of you tube. You Tube didn't like the gun building and would not work with him. You can catch his 4 Bore build on Rumble. I am waiting on pins a needles for him to upload the Lancaster videos to Rumble. He says it takes a lot of bandwidth so it may be a while.
Dirty shame!!!! I just got into watching Bill's video's when they were taken off. Beats me how shaping a piece of wood and attaching a barrel with a 18th/19th firing mechanism goes against their standards. IMO UTube like FaceBook has none. They can allow and promote radical anti-police/conservative government BS, but come on----building a late 18th/early 19th century firearm. OK, highjacked my own starting post content, off my soapbox!!! Looking forward to Bill getting his other build video's on line. I did get Dixon's 'Art of Building a Penn Rifle' and 'Recreating the American Longrifle' by Buchele,....-ton of info in those I'm still absorbing.
 
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Philip Lebow

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I have built some Jim Chambers kits, and found they were excellent. Plus, Jim and his daughter Barbie, are great people who will work with you.
 

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