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Touch hole!

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1Poet

Pilgrim
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
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Loving the forum! Just really enjoy the humor, knowledge and back and forth.
I have been shooting muzzleloaders almost fifty years and have something I don't have an answer for.
My Tip Curtis .54 flinter rifle is a beauty! His work usually is. However, I have a pretty big issue (I think) with the favorite of two I own.
I cannot get the lock to fire fast, always a swoosh, boom. I got to looking for a reason by changing the placement and amount of powder on the pan, good flint, great sparks, etc. Nothing changed the swoosh bang much.
Finally, a light went off and I looked at the placement of the touch hole. It is way too high above the pan! Now I just have to figure out how to fix it!
Any ideas accepted gratefully, as this gun is bea-uti-ful! Please, there has to be an fix!
Many thanks in advance!
20210227_163920.jpg
 
By the picture I wonder if the barrel could be inlayed a smite deeper. Hard to tell without seeing the tang section. Boring and tapping for a liner after. Just guessing
 
I see what appears to be a circle indicating a touch hole liner. Do you know if the rifle has a touch hole liner that was filed smooth to the barrel? Is the touch hole in the center of the barrel flat?

Deepening the barrel channel will mean a refinish of the stock at the very least at the breech. I am going to have to speculate that you have a touch hole liner. That liner would have to be removed and a new liner/plug made from a bolt or turned with the proper threads using a shoulder to locate the liner in the barrel. The new liner would be internally coned and the new touch hole drilled in the sunset position and angled to properly intersect the internal cone after the threaded internally coned plug is installed and filed smooth to the flat on the barrel.

If you don't have a liner, then I would recommend an internally coned touch hole liner, such as a Chambers White Lightening, installed in the proper location. You would have to get a size that would be drilled to eliminate the existing touch hole so the new liner would replace the hole. I would be concerned that a new liner would have part of the liner off the flat of the barrel.

The existing touch hole could be drilled out and plugged. Then a new touch hole could be drilled in the sunset position.
 
It looks like there's plenty of room to fill in the existing vent and drill another of the same size below it without putting the new one on the bottom of the pan.

edit: Grenadier posted while I was typing mine. Good advice there. :thumb:
 
Guessing Chambers liner. I’m not convinced the touch hole height above the bottom of the pan is the problem but it’s possible. There is a real fireball when the pan lights. Heat rises. What is the hole diameter? You could go as far as 5/64” hole diameter and see if things improve. Generally if the pan cover covers the touchhole, it will fire fine.
To remove a Chambers liner you will need an easy- out. Drill the touch hole to 1/8” first. It would be tough to get a liner with the same thread, internally coned, with the shoulder, but not drilled for the hole.
 
While you are drilling out the hole, take a look and see how long the flash channel is in the liner. I have seen some White Lightning liners from Track that have a longer channel because the cone isn't deep enough. They aren't made the same as the Chambers White Lightnin' liners. The Track of the Wolf liners can stand being counterdrilled/sunk from the outside. I have done it by just twirling a drill bit with my fingers or a handcrank drill. A power drill is likely to grab. The Chambers liner has a1/4 x 32 thread on the 1/4" liner.
 
Don't over look this. Close the frizzen/pan cover. Take a 1mm marking pen and draw a line above the closed pan cover. Open the pan cover and see if the pan cover is blocking the touch hole. If so , grind metal from the underside of the pan cover , so the powder train is uninterrupted to the touch hole. This is standard operating procedure for most new builds to make the lock a more efficient igniter. ........oldwood
 
I see what appears to be a circle indicating a touch hole liner. Do you know if the rifle has a touch hole liner that was filed smooth to the barrel? Is the touch hole in the center of the barrel flat?

Deepening the barrel channel will mean a refinish of the stock at the very least at the breech. I am going to have to speculate that you have a touch hole liner. That liner would have to be removed and a new liner/plug made from a bolt or turned with the proper threads using a shoulder to locate the liner in the barrel. The new liner would be internally coned and the new touch hole drilled in the sunset position and angled to properly intersect the internal cone after the threaded internally coned plug is installed and filed smooth to the flat on the barrel.

If you don't have a liner, then I would recommend an internally coned touch hole liner, such as a Chambers White Lightening, installed in the proper location. You would have to get a size that would be drilled to eliminate the existing touch hole so the new liner would replace the hole. I would be concerned that a new liner would have part of the liner off the flat of the barrel.

The existing touch hole could be drilled out and plugged. Then a new touch hole could be drilled in the sunset position.
Yes there is a liner flush with the barrel.
 
Don't over look this. Close the frizzen/pan cover. Take a 1mm marking pen and draw a line above the closed pan cover. Open the pan cover and see if the pan cover is blocking the touch hole. If so , grind metal from the underside of the pan cover , so the powder train is uninterrupted to the touch hole. This is standard operating procedure for most new builds to make the lock a more efficient igniter. ........oldwood
You are correct, oldwood! The bottom of the pan ( scribe line) to the center of the touch hole is 0.1615 by caliper. The edge of the pan cover, closed to the lip of the pan is only 0.098! I think I should grind the pan cover so the touch hole isn't covered. Will that really make a difference?
 
The other Tip Curtis is a lighter weight .54 smooth bore rofle, which he seemed to favor. The pan cover on it had a groove made on the pan cover at the touch hole. I think I am on the right track. Now the find a 5/64 drill bit! Iwill report back. Thanks for all the input!
 
1poet , Just about every gun I build needs the under side of the frizzen/pan cover adjusted as above. . It's something done to enhance the speed of ignition time. 20 years ago some adroit science guy figured out with real timing ghizmoes , that the lock-to-ignition was best at 1/20th second. Faster the better...............oldwood
 
I don’t think the height of your flash hole is the issue. I agree with opening the flash hole. Two of my rifles with Queen Anne style locks , with their large, shallow pan design needed some help with flash concentration by opening the flash hole before I was able to get the ignition speed to my liking. With both of mine originally having a flash hole diameter of 1/16”, one did best with 5/64”, the other with a #51 drill(purchased from TOTW). Depending on the current size of your flash hole, you might want to first test with an intermediate sized drill between 1/16” and 5/64”(#51 or #52). I would do this before changing out the liner or altering the geometry of the lock or barrel. IMO
 
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