To Wad or Not To Wad...

[Mike Brooks]

I use 3/8" pre lubed wads from Circle Fly. Being so tall they leave the ball right at the end of the cylinder after you load,which I believe leads to better accuracy. At least mine shoot well loaded this way. I'm pretty convinced chain fires come from poor fitting caps, not the lack of wads or crisco over the cylinders.

 

[Roy]

I'm pretty convinced chain fires come from poor fitting caps, not the lack of wads or crisco over the cylinders.

I have to agree. My pistols will shave a bit of lead from around the ball when loading. No way that a spark is going to get by that. Now if your caps are a bit loose they might fall off from recoil of the first or second round fired. Thankfully I never have had that happen to me yet.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I'm wonderin if any tests have been done to determine what the cause of chainfires are. It's possible that lack of lube AND loose fitting caps can cause a crossfire. GW

 

[mykeal]

Yes. Many people have conducted their own tests and concluded that without any doubt:

1) chain fires can only originate from the back of the cylinder due to loose or missing caps, or

2) chain fires can only originate from the front of the cylinder due to loose projectiles or lack of grease/wads, or

3) chain fires can originate from either end depending on whether the caps are loose or the front of the chamber is improperly sealed, or

4) chain fires are a myth and cannot occur.

If you look hard enough you can find enough evidence to prove any one or all of the above statements. It all depends on who did what testing and what they want to believe.

Certainly the opportunity exists at either end; the plasma envelopes the cylinder front and back. I personally believe the way to prevent chain fires is to ensure that you have properly fitting caps and that chamber mouth is completely sealed with the proper size AND SHAPE projectile.

 

[crockett]

I use both wads- no grease and no wads- grease. If I am going to carry the revolver in a holster I use wads to keep grease off the leather- I live in a warm climate.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yup that's a fact! :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

A few other proven causes of chainfires:
1. Nipples improperly installed. (Your's-not the gun's)
2. Your underwear is too tight or has pictures of cuddly little animals on it.
3. Your mama don't dance and your daddy don't rock'n'roll.
4. Aliens implanted a small device inside your skull.
5. Your eye shadow keeps running into your eyes when you shoot--and you are a 6'6" lumberjack.
6. There is a bright star shining in the East and three guys on camels just rode by.
7. Tiny gremlins reside in all C&B revolvers and are heavy smokers. When they flick their BICs all hell breaks loose.
8. The devil made it happen. Or maybe Toby Bridges.
9. It's all the President's fault. (What the heck, they're blaming everything else on the poor guy.)
10. It's all nonsense! Whoever heard of a chain catching fire? But just in case, I didn't do it. It's the other guy's fault.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I've had no personal experience with chainfires, thank goodness. But, a good friend who is gunsmith, thought that there was no way flame could get to the powder through the front of the cylinder. His revolver cut a nice ring of lead off the ball so it had to seal.

He loaded the cylinder without grease and it chainfired on the 2nd shot. :hmm: GW

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

So it could well have been loose or ill-fitting caps that caused the chainfire?

 

[renovato]

I definately have a LeMat in my future, just not now. Money is a bit too tight for that at the moment. I have nothing against getting a used one and that's probably the path I'll take.

I don't think wads are mandatory, but they can sure be a nice addition for guns that like them. I shot without them for many years before I learned about them.

Crossfires can and do happen. They can happen from either end. I guess I was lucky back before I learned about proper ball fit and keeping the caps tight. I had a lot of crossfires in an old, low grade pepperbox, but never in a revolver. I hafta admit, having the pepperbox go full auto was fun!

"2. Your underwear is too tight or has pictures of cuddly little animals on it."

I think Russ might have figured out why my pepperbox used to crossfire! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[LeMat1856]

russ-t,

so far, i see a thin ring of lead after seating every rb. the mfg recommended a .454" size specifically, but i have never actually measured this ".44" with a caliper or anything.

also, i have been thinking and thinking about that one round that was sticking out. i could not have forgotten to seat it all the way because the loading lever is on the left side and each round has to pass under the barrel before i can put on the #10 cap. then, for extra measure, i spin the whole cylinder once or twice more for a final inspection and clean up of excess grease or loose powder. it must have vibrated forward somehow during the volly.

also, i need to be sure these are actually seated close enough to the barrel before shooting. without wads i was using 35-40 gr. of 3f which is way too much for this pistol. now that i am using only 20-25 gr. 3f, i need something to take up the space and wads seem like the best choice. personally, i very much doubt that dudes back in 1856 were carrying around boxes of cream o' wheats or grits with tiny measuring spoons so they could add filler. but in another post, you state:
"...I was talking about the days when these guns were state of the art and folk's lives depended on them. Compared to that era wads are a new thing. They learned where the guns shot to and used a good stiff load and the guns worked fine. Sam Colt always claimed that a properly loaded C&B revolver wouldn't chainfire and he never mentioned wads or cream of wheat in the loading process...."

which assumes that circa 1800, they didn't use any of this stuff. does that include bore butters / crisco, etc. ?

i need to get a really complete book sometime and actually learn as much as possible about these pistols. the rifles don't interest me nearly as much.

btw, what does NMA stand for, as in Pietta '58 NMA ?

 

[mykeal]

i need to get a really complete book sometime and actually learn as much as possible about these pistols. the rifles don't interest me nearly as much.

btw, what does NMA stand for, as in Pietta '58 NMA ?

I'd suggest 2 books: Lyman's Black Powder Handbook and Mike Cumpston's Percussion Pistols and Revolvers, History, Performance and Practical Use. Both are available from Amazon.com. BTW, Amazon lists two different Cumpston books; I recommend the one above, but either is a fine reference book. Cumpston disavows the other book, titled Percussion Revolvers: A Guide to Their History, Performance, and Use, even though it's newer and has better pictures in it. He canceled the production contract with the publisher due to errors in the final copy but they went ahead with printing some anyway. Read the reviews on Amazon.

NMA stands for New Model Army.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I was using 777 for a while in my C&B's. I used no wads and no grease over the ball. I had no chain fires. I always use a ball that is big enough to shave off lead. Also, I use treso nipples and #10 Remington caps. I believe this combo of nipples and caps eliminate chain fires completely.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

So it could well have been loose or ill-fitting caps that caused the chainfire?

any spark getting into a loose fitting cap can set it off. always use a snug fitting cap.
I seat mine with my finger then rotate the cylinder chamber-by-chamber and press them firmly onto the nipple with the hammer - while pointing the pistol in a clear direction.
so far - so good! :grin:

 

[bingo1952]

russ-t,

i very much doubt that dudes back in 1856 were carrying around boxes of cream o' wheats or grits with tiny measuring spoons so they could add filler. but in another post, you state:
"...I was talking about the days when these guns were state of the art and folk's lives depended on them. Compared to that era wads are a new thing. They learned where the guns shot to and used a good stiff load and the guns worked fine. Sam Colt always claimed that a properly loaded C&B revolver wouldn't chainfire and he never mentioned wads or cream of wheat in the loading process...."

If they had grits or cream of wheat they probably ate it rather than blowing it out the end of a gun barrel. :haha:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

If the .454 balls are seating easily, you can try .457 balls. Or just mark the chamber that had a ball move forward and use it as the safety chamber and leave it empty.

A lube of beeswax and tallow with some olive oil added to it makes a good lube for the chamber mouth. You can make it stiffer or softer according to the time of year.

 

[Poor Private]

Here we go again--talkin about that "safety" chamber. :rotf: I thought we already hashed that out till the cows came home, and till the moon don't shine.

 

[Musketeer]

I load my Uberti 1860 with 30 grains Pyro P and .454 Hornady balls, that's it. In my case, CCI #10s fit very snugly on the factory nipples. I put them on with a capper and give 'em a good firm push. I tried wonder wads and various crisco/wax mixtures when first shooting, but abandoned them both when the wads ran out and the various greases proved to be messy as all get out and would melt right out of the chambers and run down into the holster on a hot Arizona day. I've only gone through a few hundred rounds sans wads or grease, but I have never had a chainfire thus far. I'm thinking of going with a set of Tresos, as I've read they don't blow the caps off and drop them down into the action as often as the stock nipples (which would solve the only problem I've had with my 1860). :hmm:

 

[bingo1952]

You have to tailor your grease-wax ratio for the different seasons. What works well in winter will be way to runny in the summer and the summer lube will be hard as a rock it winter and just about unusable.

 

[crockett]

LeMat 1856- about 4 years ago I was doing a lot of research on this stuff, including some of Colt's original patents for combustible cartridges. On some of them he tried out wads behind the conical bullet. In any event wads are not new, they are about as old as C & B revolvers, for that matter, so are combustible cartridges, Colt had that idea in his head about as soon as he came up with a workable revolver- while still in NJ if I recall correctly.
I don't think western gun men, etc used wads that much because they took away from cramming as much powder as possible into the chambers. I also read that Robert E. Lee's Colt Navy was sealed with some sort of wax, probably impractical for the average soldier but in any event the gun hadn't been fired in seven years and was still loaded so someone gave it a go and all chambers fired.