thundermugs

Discussion in 'Cannon' started by freekforge, Dec 21, 2012.

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  1. Mar 11, 2013 #21

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    Pilgrim

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    NU-BE LOOKING FOR HELP AND MY FIRST THUNDER MUG. Heres the one I just ordered from Rich over at rscannons. Its a little to big for you to probably make from 2.5" The mug i ordered is 5" at the base and the barrel is 4" diameter and 8.5" tall. Heres the picture though. Im looking for more information on what type of black powder to use in this and wadding. The guy I talked to from the website said he just uses bread balls. Watching youtube videos I see people using a hammer and a stick to pack the powder and wadding. The maker of my mug advised against such practices and told me to just lightly tamp the charge and wadding. Who do I believe? The mugs going to be built in a few weeks for me and in that time im here online trying to learn more and found this forum. Any help with how to get the maximum boom guys would be appreciated. Thank you.
    [​IMG]
    photo uploader
     
  2. Mar 11, 2013 #22

    BillinOregon

    BillinOregon

    BillinOregon

    Cannon MLF Supporter

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    FreekForge, you can always machine some "reinforcing rings" and braze them to your barrel, especially to yield more stability at the base. Can't wait to see what you come up with!
     
  3. Mar 12, 2013 #23

    freekforge

    freekforge

    freekforge

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    Dont use a hammer just use hand pressure. I have used bread balls in my mortars several times and get a decent boom i know some people use corn meal on top of their powder.
     
  4. Mar 12, 2013 #24

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    Pilgrim

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    Thank you. Im looking forward to using this in my backyard soon. Why cant I use smokeless powder in this? The guy i ordered it from just told me I cant do it or i will die. He couldn't explain it. Just told me I would die. I seen online that your supposed to proof test a thundermug before considering it safe to use. I asked the maker if after it was done being made if he was going to fill it to the top with 4F black powder and top the barrel with a cement block to see if the barrel would rupture. He emphatically refused to do that for me and even refused to test fire it for me without paying him for the black powder it would take to fire it. Should I just do the proof test myself after i get it? I never had a cannon but im finding all kinds of good information on the INTERNET and on youtube.
     
  5. Mar 12, 2013 #25

    Wes/Tex

    Wes/Tex

    Wes/Tex

    Cannon

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    First reason you got the advise from the builder is that smokeless powder builds up MUCH higher pressure than black powder per volume, and I mean MUCH! I'm not familiar with proofing cannons in any variation but longarms usually had double the normal charge and two balls, each proofing house had different standards by country. If you intend just to make it boom, then the FFFg powder in the photo is O.K. in small amount, but you'd be safer with Fg or Cannon grade. I'm not familiar with your cutie though, "Thundermug" means something totally different to us greybeards! :haha:
     
  6. Mar 13, 2013 #26

    Eljay

    Eljay

    Eljay

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    Correct me if I'm wrong - but with these things you light a fuse and run away, right? So on the proofing run you, what run further? So if you don't trust this guy's design or work wouldn't you just be extra cautious the first few shots?

    And yes, putting smokeless in something designed for black powder can in fact kill you. The pressures spike really fast, before the ball or whatever really gets moving and it's just not within the design constraints of the barrel. If you're using just a little and it's overbuilt, who knows, maybe nothing bad will happen. Maybe it will explode into fire and death. Who knows. Don't risk it. Black powder isn't THAT hard to find!
     
  7. Mar 14, 2013 #27

    Col. Batguano

    Col. Batguano

    Col. Batguano

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    You must have been shooting it at the equator.
     
  8. Mar 14, 2013 #28

    Poor Private

    Poor Private

    Poor Private

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    As much as I like making noise. I have long guns, pistols and even a couple of cannons(all can be live fired). But I just don't get thunder mugs. All they do is make noise, I can do that with fireworks. Can someone enlighten me the why and whatfor of thunder mugs? Are they just an expensive nosie maker?
     
  9. Mar 15, 2013 #29

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    45caliberdude

    Pilgrim

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    The reason I'm getting one is so I can make a few booms when my grandkids come In for the 4th. They all bring fireworks. I want to have something small and loud. I'm 72 years old and a 1.25" bore cannon is to much for me to haul around the yard. I appreciate the confirmation on the smokeless.
     
  10. Mar 15, 2013 #30

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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    The reason I'm getting one is so I can make a few booms when my grandkids come In for the 4th.

    Lord Have Mercy!!

    The best thing for you to do is cancel that order and stick to fire crackers.
     
  11. Mar 15, 2013 #31

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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  12. Mar 15, 2013 #32

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

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    Well said 54ball.

    A proof load is a well calculated load to develop a specific pressure.

    Using the American standard of proofing, the design is proofed usually to generate between 140% and 190% of peak working pressure. The proofing protocol may call for one or more shots. That specific gun or in this case thunder mug is then measured to determine if any dimensional changes occurred. As long as those dimensional changes are with in the recommend parameters for the type of metal then design is in proof. That specific tested thundermug would then be retained by the maker for future reference.

    It is consider unsafe to repeatedly fire a gun that has proofed to these pressures.

    The European model is to fire a proof load of usually around 120% to 130% of peak working pressure and if no malfunctions occur the individual gun is considered in proof.

    Yes you can fire smokeless power in your thundermug, provide it is constructed properly of the correct type of steel using the proper powder that generates the correct pressures

    Now if you have ask the question can you use smokeless power in your thundermug, that tells me you do not have sufficient knowledge to shoot smokeless and I wonder if you even have the knowledge to safely shoot black powder in it.

    Never use any solid material, such as bread dough as a wad, It can and will act as a projectile....I know, I know you been doing it for years with out a problem...that's what most every one who has a cannon accident say. In my case my homeowners insurance paid for the neighbors broken window.
     
  13. Mar 15, 2013 #33

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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    DD why confuse the issue?

    It has been established that this mug is for blackpowder only.

    Let me explain where I am coming from on this.

    I was a Fire Officer until an act of stupidity by someone "just playing around" caused some of my intelligence to run out my left ear.

    I have held a dead child, a three year old, oh they were just having fun.

    Here is a scene, a father holding his 2 year old, his only son, his only child for that matter. The child screaming and crying. The top of this child's head was GONE. No scalp, no scull, it was gone. He was screaming just the same. He died about 5minutes after the helicopter got him to the ER.

    His aunt or mother, I can't remember which, ate a 38 snubnose barrel a year to the day of the death of that child.

    It was just a small lapse in judgment that ended two lives and scarred a family.

    You do not play with this stuff.

    The whole mug full of 4ffff and concrete block. Do you realize this the force of like 2 or more World War II grenades! I mean you would be dodging concrete for half a mile.

    Please please folks use your head for something other than a hat rack.
     
  14. Mar 16, 2013 #34

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

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    Confused? Sorry did not mean to confuse you.

    He asked the question and the answer is yes.

    The answer is not No.

    But yes has conditions.

    Sorry you were confused.
     
  15. Mar 16, 2013 #35

    Guest

    Thank you, DD, for voicing what I was thinking.

    People are here to learn the facts about our hobby, in hopes that they will not repeat past mistakes by others.

    A recent mistake that resulted in injury and death, happened just up the road from me.
    http://www.thesttammanynews.com/news/article_04423c92-740b-11e2-b98c-0019bb2963f4.html

    We have a hobby that draws people like bugs to a bug zapper. Let's try and keep people from being "zapped" by their ignorance through thorough education.
     
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