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Two Feathers

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Howdy folks, Two Feathers here with a double question.
I'm attempting a Turtle shaped Ball bag, and I want to stitch it with PC Linen thread. Here's my 2 fold question.
What weight of thread do I need to saddle stitch 4 oz. leather, AND where can I get said thread?
I'm looking for PCness of the mid to late 1700's or the Fur Trade Era? Not sure on the dates of that?
This might have been a question better asked in the craftsman forum, but I was advised to try one or the other,
OR both, depending on my preference for PCness or craftsmanship?
Thank y'all very much.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

tenngun

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My experience vs what I can document. I like the waxed linen thread from Tandy. I’ve tried Townsends linen thread and waxed it with bees wax and paraffin and it breaks every time after a few stitches.
 

Two Feathers

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tenngun
Thank you. I'm just curious though. Is there a specific number or weight? I do a lot of saddle stitching and I've been using Ritza Tiger thread in 6mm and the synthetic stuff from off of eBay. It works great, BUT it's not linen so it's not PC/HA. My primary concern is the strength when I pull the stitches up tight. I don't want it to break. I don't "Gorilla" the stuff, but I have busted a stitch line half way through the run and that'll make a Monk swear!!!
Thanks again:
Two Feathers
 

tenngun

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I get the four ply and the seven ply, I don’t know what the maize is. It says linen on the wrapper but I can’t tell the difference in looking at it from hemp.
 

Stophel

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I've just been using the waxed linen thread from Tandy. Now, usually, it is VERY strong... sometimes it ain't. Take a length of it and pull it hard and test it before you start sewing with it... which is good advice for any thread. Any good linen thread would do.. and no, I have no idea what sizes would be suitable. I get all kinds of thread and grab whichever one suits what I'm doing.

I believe that historically, the thread would be treated with "coad", which is pine pitch, colophony rosin, and beeswax, melted together. I haven't tried doing this yet, and I may never get around to it.

 

Brokennock

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I just tried some linen thread from The Quartermaster General and am quite happy with it. I can't remember what size it is, it is fairly fine.
 

Mark Herman

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I don't know much about sewing and threads etc. but a number of pictures, paintings, of longhunters often show just a soft cloth/leather pouch for carrying ball. Usually hanging from their belt. I think the fancy hard leather ball bags are more contemporary items.
 

Two Feathers

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Gentlemen:
Thank you all for your overwhelming support of my question. I never dreamed that I'd get so many responses. I'll look into every one of them. Stophel, your Coad tutorial looks pretty intimidating? :thumb:
Not certain I can pull that off or if I want to try, but thanks. It looks like you need to be part pharmacist; part Chemist, and a little engineer thrown in? I'm definitely going to look into the Tandy waxed linen. I've been using round 4 strand polyester/cotton mix. It works it's just not PC/HA, however I'm not sure how deeply I want to get into that part; like making that Coad? For me, that might be "pushing" it just a bit?
Anyway: thank you again for all for your help. I know where to go now for answers. Y'all stay safe until this virus thing blows over.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

Tanglefoot

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Howdy Two Feathers,
About your questions: Fur Trade Era is a modern concept, but is generally considered to have started with the Lewis & Clark Expedition, 1804-1806, and ended on or about 1840 when European fashion dropped fur hats and adopted silk instead. As for linen thread, you can get some from the regular ML suppliers like Dixie Gun Works, Log Cabin, or Track Of The Wolf, or you could do like the rest of us rugged individualists and go to a fabric shop and ask the ladies there --- they're the experts on "all things sewing." I bought a complete spool of stout linen thread from a shoe repair shop many years ago and still have more than half of it left. No idea how many threads or what the pull strength is, except it's enough. I wax it myself with beeswax as I use it, but making a mixture of beeswax, rosin, and tallow is simple enough, or ask a shoemaker if you can find one. The mixture is called "shoemaker's wax." One other solution, suggested by Brokennock, is to get linen thread from military surplus suppliers. If you're NOT aiming for historical authenticity and just want a strong, visually similar thread, try common dental floss. Good luck on your bullet pouch.
 

Two Feathers

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Tanglefoot:
Thank you very much. I like the more macho concept of the fabric shop! :thumb: I loves the womens, I surely do. ( Bear Claw: Chris Lapp)
I was really trying for PC. I have cotton/polyester thread that looks the part, and it works very well. but for historical accuracy, that thread ain't gonna' cut it. I try to keep everything PC/HA, but it's getting hard these days to find the things I need to do that. Another problem is, TOTW, Crazy Crow, and most of the rest don't take PayPal, and that's all I have. I have been told that most of the guys don't give a hang about the PC ness of my wares, but I like to keep them as accurate as I can. I got called out here about 2 years on a PC/HA claim, so I've tried to be more conscientious in that regard.
I've sewed with dental floss a few times in my life; and it DOES work, but here again, not PC/HA.
Thanks for keeping the party goin', and your support of my project. I value any and ALL input.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

Brokennock

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Howdy Two Feathers,
About your questions: Fur Trade Era is a modern concept, but is generally considered to have started with the Lewis & Clark Expedition, 1804-1806, and ended on or about 1840 when European fashion dropped fur hats and adopted silk instead. As for linen thread, you can get some from the regular ML suppliers like Dixie Gun Works, Log Cabin, or Track Of The Wolf, or you could do like the rest of us rugged individualists and go to a fabric shop and ask the ladies there --- they're the experts on "all things sewing." I bought a complete spool of stout linen thread from a shoe repair shop many years ago and still have more than half of it left. No idea how many threads or what the pull strength is, except it's enough. I wax it myself with beeswax as I use it, but making a mixture of beeswax, rosin, and tallow is simple enough, or ask a shoemaker if you can find one. The mixture is called "shoemaker's wax." One other solution, suggested by Brokennock, is to get linen thread from military surplus suppliers. If you're NOT aiming for historical authenticity and just want a strong, visually similar thread, try common dental floss. Good luck on your bullet pouch.
The Quartermaster General isn't military surplus. They sell many period goods. If I remember correctly I got the thread, some stockings, and some silk bandanas in the order. With plans to order some other things from them soon.
 

Brokennock

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Cordwainer, aka The Capgun Kid at the CLA forum has an excellent series of posts with tips on leather work. Including one discussing making different thread waxes for different times of the year.
I've saved them all to "Word," files on my computer.
 

Two Feathers

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The Quartermaster General isn't military surplus. They sell many period goods. If I remember correctly I got the thread, some stockings, and some silk bandanas in the order. With plans to order some other things from them soon.
Brokennock Thanks:
What is the CLA forum, I'm interested, thank you. I looked over the Quartermaster General store. Shipping is a bit rich for my blood, but they DO have everything!! I don't need a ton of this thread, so I can get a 25 yd spool from my buddy's store in Indiana for a lot less in s&h. Thank you, I certainly appreciate your input on this subject.
Two Feathers
 

Two Feathers

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Howdy Two Feathers,
About your questions: Fur Trade Era is a modern concept, but is generally considered to have started with the Lewis & Clark Expedition, 1804-1806, and ended on or about 1840 when European fashion dropped fur hats and adopted silk instead. As for linen thread, you can get some from the regular ML suppliers like Dixie Gun Works, Log Cabin, or Track Of The Wolf, or you could do like the rest of us rugged individualists and go to a fabric shop and ask the ladies there --- they're the experts on "all things sewing." I bought a complete spool of stout linen thread from a shoe repair shop many years ago and still have more than half of it left. No idea how many threads or what the pull strength is, except it's enough. I wax it myself with beeswax as I use it, but making a mixture of beeswax, rosin, and tallow is simple enough, or ask a shoemaker if you can find one. The mixture is called "shoemaker's wax." One other solution, suggested by Brokennock, is to get linen thread from military surplus suppliers. If you're NOT aiming for historical authenticity and just want a strong, visually similar thread, try common dental floss. Good luck on your bullet pouch.
Tanglefoot
Would you be willing to part with some of that spool you have left?
I'm about to turn 72 in 10 days, so I don't need much? ;) :ThankYou:
Thank you.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

Stophel

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I have found waxed thread sufficient. My saddle stitches are almost impossible to pull apart. If I have to take two pieces back apart for some reason, I have to cut every single solitary stitch to get it apart.

The coad is just melting the ingredients together, not a big deal. I have plenty of wax, I have rosin, and I have some of the yellow pitch (somewhere). I don't have any of the black pitch, and have no idea where you could get it (or why it's black and how it differs from the yellow stuff).
 

tenngun

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Brokennock Thanks:
What is the CLA forum, I'm interested, thank you. I looked over the Quartermaster General store. Shipping is a bit rich for my blood, but they DO have everything!! I don't need a ton of this thread, so I can get a 25 yd spool from my buddy's store in Indiana for a lot less in s&h. Thank you, I certainly appreciate your input on this subject.
Two Feathers
Twenty five yards is not very much. When I’m sewing I generally pull off a fathom, well my fathom anyway, the length between hands spread apart.
I thread the needle and split it, so I get about a yard to work with. You leave two or three inch’s dead on the end, then stitch. A regular back stitch goes about a foot, a saddle stitch about eighteen to twenty inches, but you are running two sets at this time. You can eat through twenty five yards pretty quick.
 

Gulch

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Hi, I have used 5 cord linnen thread for a lot of years, works great for bags. It can be a little heavy for light weight leather (2-3 oz ) so i just pull out one strand of thread. No problem breaking this weight thread and stitching lays down very nice
 

Brokennock

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Brokennock Thanks:
What is the CLA forum, I'm interested, thank you. I looked over the Quartermaster General store. Shipping is a bit rich for my blood, but they DO have everything!! I don't need a ton of this thread, so I can get a 25 yd spool from my buddy's store in Indiana for a lot less in s&h. Thank you, I certainly appreciate your input on this subject.
Two Feathers
Contemporary Longrifle Association.
You advertise in their classifieds.
 
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