Thoughts on casting...

[Carbon 6]

As too the mold being hot...
yes it was hot , can you get them too hot?
I’ve never heard of anyone having too let the mold cool down.

Yes, a mold can get too hot, brass is a good candidate but it can happen with any mold. When casting I usually run 3 molds at once, switching back and forth so they don't over heat.

I think heat was definitely an issue but I also think you had an alloy problem.

 

[nhmoose]

To test for zinc in an alloy like you have drop some muriatic acid on the piece it will fizz if zinc is present.

You WILL NOT scratch zinc ww with a fingernail nor cut it with a side cutter plier it is way to hard.

If that alloy in your pot looked like oatmeal it may have been zinc but it sure does not look like zinc to me.

As I stated before it is way to hot and you stated you opened the mold before it was hard.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Looks like to hot mold and lead and mold opened to soon before the ball hardened.

BINGO. Give that man a cigar.

 

[Griz44Mag]

1. Control your lead temperature.
2. Control your mold temperature
3. Get into a rhythm. Watch your sprue pool. Let it harden. Wait 10 seconds before opening the mold.
4. If it is a big ball, let it cool a little longer.
5. Drop you ball out onto a padded surface. I stack up 8 or 10 red shop rags. Drop from a very low height.
6. Drop your ball out of the mold GENTLY. When they are still hot, they are very easy to deform (maybe even split down the middle.)
7. Casting is not rocket science, but there is still some science involved.
8. The ball you dropped out onto a hard surface that looks like a meadow muffin - tells the whole story. TOO HOT and dropped out while still molten.

 

[Idaho Ron]

There is a drop or thud test. Drop them on concrete and the lead ones go "thunk" and the zinc goes "clink". Real scientific huh?

Hey that is not that bad of a test really. I know for a fact I can scratch 18 BHN hard lead. The drop test is better than the scratch test.

 

[Idaho Ron]

View attachment 7838 With all the talk of differences in lead purity , I thought I would see what you Guys make of this....

Over the past 40 years I’ve cast many fishing jigs, sinkers and a few round ball’s along the way.

I don’t own a lead tester, thermometer, until now I’ve never really had any issues being able to produce a few hundred shootable round ball’s in the past.

Before now, once the mold got to temperature , the wrinkles disappeared and all was good....

Then this happened.....

Thoughts?

FYI- The lead being used is soft, it can be scratched with your thumbnail.

Your lead got too hot. Also you do not have soft lead. It is for sure alloy.
If you want the hardness tested I could do it for you if you sent me 3 balls to test. But I can tell you for sure just looking at it that it is hard lead or maybe even zinc like someone asked.

 

[smo]

1. Control your lead temperature.
2. Control your mold temperature
3. Get into a rhythm. Watch your sprue pool. Let it harden. Wait 10 seconds before opening the mold.
4. If it is a big ball, let it cool a little longer.
5. Drop you ball out onto a padded surface. I stack up 8 or 10 red shop rags. Drop from a very low height.
6. Drop your ball out of the mold GENTLY. When they are still hot, they are very easy to deform (maybe even split down the middle.)
7. Casting is not rocket science, but there is still some science involved.
8. The ball you dropped out onto a hard surface that looks like a meadow muffin - tells the whole story. TOO HOT and dropped out while still molten.

# 1-7 simple casting 101, I’ve never had any issues before casting. All though my expierience with round ball’s are somewhere between 500- 1000 cast total.
Add in a 1000 or so jig heads and sinkers over a 40 years period and that’s my casting resume..
I did pour some lead joint drain piping at a packing house once as well...
Never any problems once mold/ material was hot.

Now # 8 Why / What causes the gritty look on the balls too start with? The other wrinkled balls in the pic were from the same material?
Heat possibly.... this was my first time pour this large a ball.

I’ve always just watched the sprue pool until it solidfies then dumped the ball out of the mold, this was my first time casting with a brass mold as well....
The pool on these seemed too solidify , but looked frosty/ grainy . Then when dropped ( from around 4-6 inches ) they were mush but hardened..

As too the thumbnail test.... soft lead is soft lead.
Thumbnail test should work as well now as it did 40 years ago.

If it’s true lead ... it will scratch...
Apparently everyone ( for once) is in agreement .. zinc is a hard material and will not scratch with a thumbnail..

As too the drop test .. seeing as how I can scratch it with my thumbnail I didn’t see the need too drop it on the floor.

I’m sure if dropped on the edge, there would be a indention in the material..

I going too shoot some of what I’ve got poured and see if the gun likes them.

I know it’ll shoot a .648 ball well, so if they don’t perform well it really doesn’t matter much anyhow.

I just thought I would post some of the issues I had with running a few round ball’s .
With all the talk about lead/ zinc issues..

 

[smo]

To test for zinc in an alloy like you have drop some muriatic acid on the piece it will fizz if zinc is present.

You WILL NOT scratch zinc ww with a fingernail nor cut it with a side cutter plier it is way to hard.

If that alloy in your pot looked like oatmeal it may have been zinc but it sure does not look like zinc to me.

As I stated before it is way to hot and you stated you opened the mold before it was hard.

Thanks NHM

I’ve always adjusted the pot temp as I added or removed lead from the pot.

Never going above 6/7 , or below 4 on the small Lee pot..

I would think the brass mold would hold heat better than a steel mold , but I maybe wrong.

As I got a rhythm going casting, the mold could have very easily became overheated.

I just wasn’t aware that a mold could get too hot...
I still don’t understand the grainy / gritty look unless it was in direct relation too excess heat..

Nothing else changed during the pour.
The remaining material in the pot was after had dipped out all I could with my small ladle .

It came out when cured , soft and bendable..
So I don't think zinc was an issue, maybe something else in the material but I don’t think it was zinc.

 

[smo]

Your lead got too hot. Also you do not have soft lead. It is for sure alloy.
If you want the hardness tested I could do it for you if you sent me 3 balls to test. But I can tell you for sure just looking at it that it is hard lead or maybe even zinc like someone asked.

Thanks for the offer Ron, I’ve got a Friend fairly close that can test them , I’ll ship him samples of all the different lead sources I have on hand.

The material used here seemed too shine more than most materials I’ve used... I suspected it contained a fair amount of tin .
However it does scratch easily.

Thanks again.

 

[Baxter]

Thanks for the offer Ron, I’ve got a Friend fairly close that can test them , I’ll ship him samples of all the different lead sources I have on hand.

The material used here seemed too shine more than most materials I’ve used... I suspected it contained a fair amount of tin .
However it does scratch easily.

Thanks again.

Hello SMO. Mold is too hot - the wrinkling (on the top ball) was, for me, a warning of excessive heat and continuing to cast, the temperature increasing, gave me grainy-looking balls.
Have you weighed the true balls? there is/was a reference page here which yielded gr's/cal.
I've never used any but ferrous mold blocks, so, no idea about brass but I note a lot of flashing on the balls.
Best regards,
Baxter

 

[smo]

Hello SMO. Mold is too hot - the wrinkling (on the top ball) was, for me, a warning of excessive heat and continuing to cast, the temperature increasing, gave me grainy-looking balls.
Have you weighed the true balls? there is/was a reference page here which yielded gr's/cal.
I've never used any but ferrous mold blocks, so, no idea about brass but I note a lot of flashing on the balls.
Best regards,
Baxter

Thank you Sir for the info, I always thought wrinkles in the ball was from a cold mold... I didn’t realize a too hot mold would do the same.

As for the weight of the balls, I have not weighed them... yet.
But I plan too prior too shooting them..

Have you got the old TC shined up and range ready?
I hope the weather cooperates and you get in some range time soon!

She’s a shooter!

 

[Baxter]

Thank you Sir for the info, I always thought wrinkles in the ball was from a cold mold... I didn’t realize a too hot mold would do the same.

As for the weight of the balls, I have not weighed them... yet.
But I plan too prior too shooting them..

Have you got the old TC shined up and range ready?
I hope the weather cooperates and you get in some range time soon!

She’s a shooter!

You may bee correct about the wrinkling; I am recovering from a terrible cold that my wife brought home to my daughter, who then gave it to me so I have been hibernating in my bed until noon today. Not sure that my brain is fully engaged and
not sure that I should even be giving advice yet.
Yes, the rifle is ready to go and I just need a dripless nose and some fair weather.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Once you get the temp set to a good casting temp, quit screwing with it.
It is a thermostat. On-off-on-off
If you add lead to the pot, the thermostat will turn the heater on. When it's hot enough, it will turn it off.
It will not heat faster - or slower - just because you change the dial, I you change the dial it will turn on or off.
The wattage will not change. The rate at which it heats will not change just because you turn it up.

 

[Carbon 6]

Once you get the temp set to a good casting temp, quit screwing with it.
It is a thermostat. On-off-on-off
If you add lead to the pot, the thermostat will turn the heater on. When it's hot enough, it will turn it off.
It will not heat faster - or slower - just because you change the dial, I you change the dial it will turn on or off.
The wattage will not change. The rate at which it heats will not change just because you turn it up.

100% correct. I also find that adding lead sooner as opposed to when the pot is near empty decreases the temperature variation and increases the recovery time.

 

[smo]

I understand what your saying , but the pot does melt the 2 1/2 pound chunk of lead faster when turned up.
Once the melting starts I turn it back too 4-5 my normal pouring setting.

As the pot gets low, I add more material and turn the dial up a couple notches ( 6-7 ) until the chunk of lead or cull balls start too melt again then I back it back down...

Right or wrong, I’ve never had any issues before now doing it like this.

I’m going too give it another go in a few days too see if the same thing happens with this material and the next trip into town I going too send my Friend some balls for a hardness test.


Thanks again for the help.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I understand what your saying , but the pot does melt the 2 1/2 pound chunk of lead faster when turned up.

Thanks again for the help.

(It's your imagination. The pot is 500 watts - PERIOD)

 

[Carbon 6]

Change to a different lead source and try again.

Did you weigh any of the balls to see if they were unusually light?

 

[smo]

(It's your imagination. The pot is 500 watts - PERIOD)

Imagine that.....

 

[smo]

Change to a different lead source and try again.

Did you weigh any of the balls to see if they were unusually light?

I did change to a different lead source,
But I haven’t weighed any balls .... yet.

Here’s what the new lead source turned out......

This time I did flux with bees wax and smoked/ smudged the mold with a candle prior to pouring.


Here’s what floated too the top and was skimmed off..... almost gold in color.

The pot contents...

 

[smo]

Next casting session.... Plan B.

I’m starting fresh, new melting pot, new ladle , new heat source and back to a lead source I’ve used in the past with good results.

It’ll be a few days before I give it another go, but that’s my recovery plan.

The lead source in the photos above was
Hornady .535 Roundballs, which I’m told are pure lead.