This was found treading water during our flood.

[rabjr]

Weighs 9 lb's and obviously reusued parts from a military gun into a meat gun for someone at one time. Barrel measures 41" to the breech face and is a .700 bore. Looks like to me a converted flintlock (?). Lock is solid and clicks with authority, half cock and full cock. The gun appears to be solid and with a new nipple just might be fireable. I think it's been restocked rather than cut down but what do I know...there is a ramrod pipe lost it's solder but it it is still on the ramrod and could be replaced. Cool piece just wish it didn't weigh so much. I have not taken it a part at all or done anything to it. Thw ramrod has what appears as an home made worm on one end.

Only thing I can see on the barrel is stamped a "U" and an "M" or a "3" that looks like an M, not sure. No other markings I can see, nothing on the outside of the lock.

 

[bkovire]

nice :thumbsup: i agree, looks like it was a flint lock at one time, seen a lot of them, my o2 is that it could be from the civil war being short stock and round brl .700 or in that range is an other one, dont see no tang for a bayonet so it could be a cav carbine, had a meeting last night, one of the board mems had a mag that had civil war arms in it can not remember what mag, looking at pic's and $ not bad prices, can ask next week what mag it was.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Swampy, you shore came up with a doozy this time! I can't tell you what it is for sure, but I can tell you it has an English buttplate of the Enfield pattern. The triggerguard appears to me to be from a M1766 French musket. The lock stumps me a little, but is likely either French or German. It apparently had an iron pan, so that rules out the M1777 French. Anything earlier had iron pans, but the locks were bevelled all around. The US M1816 had a partially round face lock, but it also had a brass pan. The size and shape of the remains of the pan leads me to think it may be from one of the German states. The bore size would be right for either American or French or English (pre-1853 for the English). Both (Amer. and French) usually had the model date stamped at the breech (at least for a while). A US barrel will have an eagle's head of one shape or another as well as a V and a P nearby.

The stock is a bit of a mystery. The buttstock is definitely in the shape of an English musket of the Victorian period. Up through the P1851, British muskets were pin-fastened. It's kind of hard to tell about yours as it was cut back in the area a band would have been, but since this is a conversion, I'd be safe saying it was pin-fastened. The conversion was the common drum type used by many armories before and during the Civil War. I was puzzled by the lack of a sling swivel, but after zooming on the picture, it appears that there was a small rectangular hole between the trigger bow and the screw that looks to have been filled in. It's a little off-center. That should be where the swivel stud would have come through the guard. Early French and American muskets used a separate stud instead of a lump in the bow for mounting the swivel. Also, even though this guard has a screw fastening the forward part to the stock, this type should have two screws behind the bow and none in front. So it's a puzzler to me. If I had more sources here to look at, I might be able to find some other specimens that match. So the only concrete thing I can tell you at this time is that the buttplate is Victorian period British and that it appears to possibly be a parts gun. :hmm:

 

[rabjr]

Swampy, you shore came up with a doozy this time! I can't tell you what it is for sure, but I can tell you it has an English buttplate of the Enfield pattern. The triggerguard appears to me to be from a M1766 French musket. The lock stumps me a little, but is likely either French or German. It apparently had an iron pan, so that rules out the M1777 French. Anything earlier had iron pans, but the locks were bevelled all around. The US M1816 had a partially round face lock, but it also had a brass pan. The size and shape of the remains of the pan leads me to think it may be from one of the German states. The bore size would be right for either American or French or English (pre-1853 for the English). Both (Amer. and French) usually had the model date stamped at the breech (at least for a while). A US barrel will have an eagle's head of one shape or another as well as a V and a P nearby.

The stock is a bit of a mystery. The buttstock is definitely in the shape of an English musket of the Victorian period. Up through the P1851, British muskets were pin-fastened. It's kind of hard to tell about yours as it was cut back in the area a band would have been, but since this is a conversion, I'd be safe saying it was pin-fastened. The conversion was the common drum type used by many armories before and during the Civil War. I was puzzled by the lack of a sling swivel, but after zooming on the picture, it appears that there was a small rectangular hole between the trigger bow and the screw that looks to have been filled in. It's a little off-center. That should be where the swivel stud would have come through the guard. Early French and American muskets used a separate stud instead of a lump in the bow for mounting the swivel. Also, even though this guard has a screw fastening the forward part to the stock, this type should have two screws behind the bow and none in front. So it's a puzzler to me. If I had more sources here to look at, I might be able to find some other specimens that match. So the only concrete thing I can tell you at this time is that the buttplate is Victorian period British and that it appears to possibly be a parts gun. :hmm:

I knew when I saw it, it was a mutt. I did notice the 3 screws in the trigger guard and there does appear to be a place where it was filed like you said about a sling hole. Theres a brass screw holding the butt plate on where there should be a pin. To my untrained eyes it looks like someone made a usable gun from parts, including a new stock made for it but I'm no expert by a long shot.

 

[Norinco]

How did you find it?

It does seem strange the lock is held on by only one screw.

 

[Pete44ru]

Rhode Island's been declared a Federal Disaster Area due to the tremendous 100 year flooding, so I only hope it didn't get flushed out of some poor soul's home, along with most of their other posessions.

.

 

[rabjr]

How did you find it?

It does seem strange the lock is held on by only one screw.

My friend is a hanyman and busy pumping out cellars. The owner asked him if he wanted it after expressing interest and told him to take it, wasn't any good to him. :youcrazy: The lucky SOB.

 

[JV Puleo]

It looks to me like a militia musket made from condemned parts and later cut back to half-stock. Without markings its impossible to say who made it, but before the 1840s, when the militia act of 1792 was still enforced, there was a constant demand for inexpensive muskets. Most all of the muskets you see described as "state contract" or "unknown state contract" aren't anything of the sort...they are like yours, made for commercial sale to individual militiamen. Most eastern states didn't start issuing arms to the militia until just before the CW...until then nearly all of the arms procured under the militia act were kept in storage as a reserve.

 

[rabjr]

It looks to me like a militia musket made from condemned parts and later cut back to half-stock. Without markings its impossible to say who made it, but before the 1840s, when the militia act of 1792 was still enforced, there was a constant demand for inexpensive muskets. Most all of the muskets you see described as "state contract" or "unknown state contract" aren't anything of the sort...they are like yours, made for commercial sale to individual militiamen. Most eastern states didn't start issuing arms to the militia until just before the CW...until then nearly all of the arms procured under the militia act were kept in storage as a reserve.

You going to the auction at the E.G Armory Monday Joe? I guess he's putting it in the auction.

 

[Norinco]

Bannerman build?

 

[Tumblernotch]

I also forgot to mention that there should be two lock screws and an escutcheon plate. There's a dent about where the forward screw should be and it almost looks like there was once a hole that may have been filled in somehow. But maybe my old eyes are seeing things that ain't there. If there never was a hole, somebody just made a stock that will work and decided to just use one screw. The lock will tell what happened. If that's a real musket lock, there'll be a threaded hole behind that hammer. At any rate, no musket made on contract even for the militia will have a one screw lock. And there's not even a mortise where a plate would have been. The inspectors would have freaked out.

But it's still a neat piece. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

I also forgot to mention that there should be two lock screws and an escutcheon plate. There's a dent about where the forward screw should be and it almost looks like there was once a hole that may have been filled in somehow. But maybe my old eyes are seeing things that ain't there. If there never was a hole, somebody just made a stock that will work and decided to just use one screw. The lock will tell what happened. If that's a real musket lock, there'll be a threaded hole behind that hammer. At any rate, no musket made on contract even for the militia will have a one screw lock. And there's not even a mortise where a plate would have been. The inspectors would have freaked out.

But it's still a neat piece. :thumbsup:

I didn't want to take it apart but found I couldn't resist. The lock is cruddy but works pretty dang good as is, so if the new owner cleans the inside, should work like a charm. Does not show where a second bolt would have been ever. I did find a "M" and a "4" stamped pretty heavy at the breech area. I found a rubber??washer under the lock bolt which just shows signs of cracking, otherwise it's in good shape. What I found interesting was the two small pins, someone carefully used a chisel it appears, and split one end, I assume to hold better. I checked the wood out carefully and there is no other wood inletted, hiding something. I don't think this is or was a military stock in the begining but there is two holes drilled at the top of the butt plate and a screw holding it down, was this a mistake in drilling the first hole? Who knows.

 

[bkovire]

using the zoom, looks like V crossed keys and a R with a bar just my .02 :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[Mike Brooks]

When I worked for Rock Island Auction Co. this is what I'd describe as an " Unknown musket" :wink:
It certainly seems to be a collection of left over parts. The stock job is very professional, no back woods hacker did this one. That lock inlet is very nice as is the overall architecture. The lock must have been "new old stock" when the gun was made as it looks like the lock was never drilled for a forward lock screw. :hmm:

 

[rabjr]

I'd love to keep it but I'm sure he'll get a hundred bucks for it at the auction. Wish I had but I just don't. Just as well it's to heavy for me at 9 lbs. :haha:

 

[rabjr]

Sweeeet, told my friend I thought it was restorable enough for me to use for a turkey gun and he gave it to me. :thumbsup:

 

[Lostinthewoods]

These guns used to be all over the place back in the '50s.

Parts guns made up by European firms for the "African trade".

Dixie bought tons of these parts and some complete guns. I have the remains of one in 20ga I bought from them back in the '60s. I cut my gunbuilding teeth on these parts, making guns that were strikingly like that shown.

Locks 3/$5 (grab bag, you never knew what it would be)

smoothbore barrels $5 each, 3/$12 (caliber/ga unknown but close too...)

stocks $5, their choice

I am still shooting two of their smoothbore barrels.

 

[Norinco]

So in the 1950's Europeans were still actively selling muzzleloaders in Africa?

Are these 1950's made parts or 19th century made parts?

 

[Roy]

Sweeeet, told my friend I thought it was restorable enough for me to use for a turkey gun and he gave it to me. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

First order of business will be to clean up the inside of the lock. Second, try ti remove the nipple and use a pipe cleaner or wire to check for an open channel into the barrel? I don't think I want to try to get into removing the drum at all possible right? Once I determine theres a clear channel and usable. Then we fix the ramrod pipe.

A worm has determined the gun is unloaded. The bore didn't feel that bad with oiled patches. Pretty smooth, no high or low points.

If I get this working maybe I can get Mike Brooks to replace the rubber washer with a nice inletted brass piece with an engraved bird scene. :hmm: