The whole point of the matter......

[sussexmuzllodr]

is when this argument of Pyrodex vs. Blackpowder continues on. Sure Blackpowder IS faster than P-Dex. In light of the current supply issues when no Black Powder is around P-Dex will suffice. YOU just have to take in consideration that it is slower than Black Powder and adjust yourself to that fact. Will it kill a Deer? Absolutely! If one is so stuck on HOLY BLACK....well I guess you can sit around and pray for some to show up. For those that say P-Dex does not work in Flintlocks they are perhaps just lazy to try different methods to make it work. The other side of the argument is P-Dex will ruin your bore....Baloney! Clean your darn Gun! Ya change the oil in your car ...right? There may be a time where Black Powder due to regulations and availability can be rare as hens teeth...as we are seeing now with caps. I guarantee that there would be the same run on the supply of P-Dex. After all a half of loaf is better than no loaf. I also do not rock my Flintlock Rifle to sleep at night....carry on....

 

[bang]

Been using Pyrodex near on 30 years in rifles, revolvers and pistols. Never ruined any.

 

[Okie Hog]

IME: Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. i've used at least 50 pounds of Pyrodex. No rifle has ever rusted. One rifle has fired well over 3,500 rounds using Pyrodex: The bore is pristine.

Clean your gun and it won't rust.

 

[Cpt Flint]

There are always some who are satisfied with second best and feel the need to defend their position.

 

[TreeMan]

Black powder is the same as center fire ammo when a political scare is going on. It’ll show up from time to time at the distributors. It’ll be available for a week then gone for a few weeks. Watch the websites and when it’s available buy all you can afford. I keep at least 10,000 rounds of various calibers of ammo and at least 20lbs of black powder. Finding black powder locally at ANY time nowadays is very unusual. There just aren’t many mom and pop gun shops carrying it anymore so online shopping it is. When powder becomes available somewhere buy it in bulk same as ammo. When we have a different president maybe things get back to normal skip a weekend of drinking or playing golf and spend $500 on powder and ammo.. Nothing wrong with pyrodex but I mostly shoot flintlocks so it’s just not an option. Even if it was I don’t like it.

 

[hanshi]

Glad that I have both doors covered. Got mostly flintlocks but do have three (3) percussions and one of them uses musket caps. So I can shoot BP in my flinters AND Pyrodex in the other three.

 

[hanshi]

Remember there are two (2) scenarios where there is no second place. So never, never be satisfied with second place and never defend that illusive "place".

1. In a gunfight.
2. In a fight with a bear.

 

[toot]

There are always some who are satisfied with second best and feel the need to defend their position.

ROGER THAT!

 

[Okie Hog]

There are always some who are satisfied with second best and feel the need to defend their position.

There are those who have never used Pyrodex or who failed to properly clean their guns after using Pyrodex, who spout untrue tales about Pyrodex and other black powder substitutes.

 

[LME]

IME: Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. i've used at least 50 pounds of Pyrodex. No rifle has ever rusted. One rifle has fired well over 3,500 using Pyrodex: The bore is pristine.

Clean your gun and it won't rust.

I don't mean to offend anyone but Pyrodex problems don't exist. I have shot a 1 1/2 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards using Pyrodex. Was it luck? I can assure you that it played a a big part . I will probably never shoot that well again? I also have some targets that had 6 inch groups? I clean my weapons every time I get back home and they come out spotless when I am through. I use only cut up T-shirts for patches, hot tap water and dish soap. I dry my barrels by putting it on the kitchen stove over two burrners and heating it up . works like a charm. If this is why I have no problems ,I don't know but the results are are the proof that something I am doing is right? We have enough problems and I don't want to create non-existent ones.

 

[dave951]

And some folks think Wild Irish Rose and Boone's Farm are fine wines. You can get a buzz off either, but you'll never see them served with filet outside of a trailer park

 

[LME]

And some folks think Wild Irish Rose and Boone's Farm are fine wines. You can get a buzz off either, but you'll never see them served with filet outside of a trailer park

Comments like your keeps some people away that have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Is it necessary to make such a comment?

 

[dave951]

Comments like your keeps some people away that have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Is it necessary to make such a comment?

Some folks blindly believe in a product that has a spotty history and when I'm doing product research, I don't want to read the glowing 5 star reviews. I want to see what is being said by those in the 1-2 star area. I'm also cognizant enough to realize when I see operator error as well. In nearly 50 years of shooting, I've seen more guns ruined by Pyrodex than real black when you factor in the life of the gun. That is, look at how long that rusty CVA that only saw pdex has been in existence v say, a 1861 Springfield that's seen battlefield conditions and only the holy black. That make sense? Add to that, many who do use pdex will vociferously defend it's use. If you want it, more power to ya. When it first came out, it was touted as the best thing since real black was invented but the fact is the fouling and salts left in the barrel are chemically far more corrosive than real black. Make no mistake, you have to clean both, but if you don't revisit pdex, on subsequent days, you will have issues.

Wealth of knowledge, let's quantify that a bit- years of experience? competition shooters? (people who care about the details). In my years of shooting, and I'm a competition shooter, when I hear some droning on about how accurate their rifle is and when asked for details, there are none. Should I take their opinion as fact? So by the same token, should I also take it as gospel that pdex is better than black from someone who can't provide data to support the position? Sure, it'll go bang, but it does have a higher ignition temp so it's not so good in flinters without a booster. In competition where accuracy matters (NOT SASS), look at what the top 50% are using and you won't find pdex.

Folks spend between $1-2k and some are far north of $2k. You put that much money into the gun but want to run pdex in that expensive rifle?

 

[Howard Pippin]

What constitutes a ruined barrel? Like others, I thought a barrel with a few pits in it was trash, until I purchased an older percussion that had been left uncleaned from about 1980 until last year, and when I first tried anything, hot water wouldn't even go down the barrel. Has it got pits?, you bet. Doe it shoot accurately? Yes it does. It's a 45 caliber and the darn thing shoots as good or better as my pristine 50 calibers. I don't think it's the condition of the round balls, as the mold that came with the rifle was made in Italy, the same place the rifle was made, balls are oversized a bit and not round, But they still work. After shooting, it's not that hard to clean and yes you can see some pits. The rifling was even gone at the end of the barrel on one side, which caused the gun to shoot to one side on the first shot. I took a round file, took the rifling off the other side, and now it shoots pretty straight. Any beaver trapper would've been happy with a gun this good.
Squint

 

[LME]

Some folks blindly believe in a product that has a spotty history and when I'm doing product research, I don't want to read the glowing 5 star reviews. I want to see what is being said by those in the 1-2 star area. I'm also cognizant enough to realize when I see operator error as well. In nearly 50 years of shooting, I've seen more guns ruined by Pyrodex than real black when you factor in the life of the gun. That is, look at how long that rusty CVA that only saw pdex has been in existence v say, a 1861 Springfield that's seen battlefield conditions and only the holy black. That make sense? Add to that, many who do use pdex will vociferously defend it's use. If you want it, more power to ya. When it first came out, it was touted as the best thing since real black was invented but the fact is the fouling and salts left in the barrel are chemically far more corrosive than real black. Make no mistake, you have to clean both, but if you don't revisit pdex, on subsequent days, you will have issues.

Wealth of knowledge, let's quantify that a bit- years of experience? competition shooters? (people who care about the details). In my years of shooting, and I'm a competition shooter, when I hear some droning on about how accurate their rifle is and when asked for details, there are none. Should I take their opinion as fact? So by the same token, should I also take it as gospel that pdex is better than black from someone who can't provide data to support the position? Sure, it'll go bang, but it does have a higher ignition temp so it's not so good in flinters without a booster. In competition where accuracy matters (NOT SASS), look at what the top 50% are using and you won't find pdex.

Folks spend between $1-2k and some are far north of $2k. You put that much money into the gun but want to run pdex in that expensive rifle?

This has nothing to do with my first statement? I never said Pyrodex was better or worse than Black powder. I was referring to your derogatory statement. Don't you think it could have been said in a better way? Making rash statements trying to be humorous isn't in the best interest of anyone.

 

[Eutycus]

It seemed like this thread started out talking about "availability" not the plus or minus qualities of either Pyrodex or Holy Black.

 

[Okie Hog]

i don't care about your vast experience in competition or whatever. Don't care that the ignition point of Pyrodex is higher than black powder. Don't care that most flint lock shooters can't make it work in their guns. Fact is that some flint lock shooters make Pyrodex work in their guns.

In the mid to late 1950s and early 60s i traded for and traded away dozens of original muzzleloaders; those guns were worth very little until the Civil War centennial and the US bi-centennial came along. The bores of over 75 percent of those guns had been ruined from using black powder.

Make no mistake, you have to clean both, but if you don't revisit pdex, on subsequent days, you will have issues.

Malarky.

Go ahead and use your worshipful black powder, i'll use something else.

 

[dave951]

i don't care about your vast experience in competition or whatever. Don't care that the ignition point of Pyrodex is higher than black powder. Don't care that most flint lock shooters can't make it work in their guns. Fact is that some flint lock shooters make Pyrodex work in their guns.

In the mid to late 1950s and early 60s i traded for and traded away dozens of original muzzleloaders; those guns were worth very little until the Civil War centennial and the US bi-centennial came along. The bores of over 75 percent of those guns had been ruined from using black powder.



Malarky.

Go ahead and use your worshipful black powder, i'll use something else.

Go ahead and use pdex. I won't and I remember when it first came out. The hype and gullible shooters ruined more than a few barrels. The only sub I consider worth using is T7.

And if you don't like a seriously tongue in cheek reply, maybe that shoot across the bow hit the bridge

 

[LME]

Go ahead and use pdex. I won't and I remember when it first came out. The hype and gullible shooters ruined more than a few barrels. The only sub I consider worth using is T7.

And if you don't like a seriously tongue in cheek reply, maybe that shoot across the bow hit the bridge

You totally missed the point. Sad!

 

[deermanok]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I will say that it could be just economics. If someone doesn't have 150 or so bucks to place an order for real black powder with say Graf&sons but they do have 20 bucks to walk into a Walmart and buy a pound of Pyrodex and be able to enjoy shooting their muzzleloader, then God bless them.