The War Between The States Discussions

Discussion in 'Civil War' started by Zonie, Jul 19, 2019.

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  1. Nov 22, 2019 #2961

    Carbon 6

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    Really ? Not according to all the secession documents. Their reasons are spelled out plainly.
    I think what you mean to say is that the northern reason for bringing the states back was different than the reason for them leaving.
     
  2. Nov 22, 2019 #2962

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    If only you could provide something of historical significance. I would have great interest in them.
     
  3. Nov 22, 2019 #2963

    Carbon 6

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    I wouldn't make any presumptions about me.

    This forum topic may benefit you with your "spam" problem.
    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...ty-emails-how-to-disable.114729/#post-1567431
     
  4. Nov 22, 2019 #2964

    arcticap

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    It's pretty clear from the Confederate Constitution that the intent of the Confederacy was to protect and promote slavery and the slave business.
    That's why most but not all of the slave states left the Union and chose to join the Confederacy.

    Article 5 Section 3

    "(3) The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."

    Article 1 Section 4:

    "(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

    Article 4 Section 2:

    "Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired."

    Article 2 Section 2

    "(3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due."

    Article 1 Section 9 (1):

    "Sec. 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same."
    https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
     
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  5. Nov 22, 2019 #2965

    tenngun

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    OMG who would have thought people would want property rights clearly protected in their constitution?
    Remember the Declaration of Independence laid out that the purpose of government was to secure the rights of its citizens?
     
  6. Nov 22, 2019 #2966

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    Frederick Douglass argued in the lead-up to the Civil War, that none of the clauses of the Constitution should be interpreted as applying to slaves. The “language of the law must be construed strictly in favor of justice and liberty,”

    Because the Constitution does not explicitly recognize slavery and does not therefore admit that slaves were property, all the protections it affords to persons could be applied to slaves.
     
  7. Nov 22, 2019 #2967

    Carbon 6

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    No, the reasons we have posted are spot on. If you want an example of "twisting" here is one where the south attempted to twist the constitution in their favor.


    In the senate of South Carolina the Hon. O.M. Dantzler offered the following resolutions, Dec 10, 1859.
    Resolved, That the southern states shall be, of right supreme upon the questions which affect the fortunes of Domestic slavery.

    Resolved, That the measures of the General Government restrictive of the foreign slave trade, are in derogation of this right and ought to be repealed.
     
  8. Nov 22, 2019 #2968

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    In for a penny, in for a pound.
    Don't forget the first words of the preamble.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
     
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  9. Nov 22, 2019 #2969

    tenngun

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    Children, mentally incompetents too?
    How were blacks seen by the society of that time.
    Even where ‘free’ were they equal?
     
  10. Nov 22, 2019 #2970

    Carbon 6

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    Differently than the south wanted them to be seen. That was the problem for the South.
    The real issue though, is how they were treated. that's where feathers really got ruffled.
    Southern slave owners treated them like animals, and made it illegal for them to read or be educated.

    Southern slave owners were guilty of crimes against humanity.
     
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  11. Nov 22, 2019 #2971

    tenngun

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    Crimes against humanity???
    Every civilization on earth stands in that same dock.
    Including the hypocritical northern and Western Europe that funded and empowered American, all american, slavery.
     
  12. Nov 22, 2019 #2972

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    Other societies weren't based on those crimes, centered around them though and they got rid of slavery.
     
  13. Nov 22, 2019 #2973

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    Heck even the Mexicans outlawed slavery before the South did.
     
  14. Nov 23, 2019 #2974

    tenngun

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    And kept them as peons and sets, let’s not pretend they were free.
     
  15. Nov 23, 2019 #2975

    tenngun

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    Other societies and civilization were no different then the south. There was nothing unusual about the south and its treatment of slaves. In one exception. The south and British slave keepers tended to treat slaves better then most other societies.
    You need to stop pretending there was something out out of the ordinary about southren slavery.
     
  16. Nov 23, 2019 #2976

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    You miss all the detail, painting with a broad brush.
     
  17. Nov 23, 2019 #2977

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    What other country or nation fought a civil war over the expansion of slavery?

    What other country or nation attempted to created a perpetual slaves based on their race or color ?

    What other country or nation kidnapped their slaves ?

    Southern slave owners thought themselves "aristocratic and civilized.
    What other civilized countries or nations had widespread slavery in 1860 ? ( other than Brazil)
     
  18. Nov 23, 2019 #2978

    tenngun

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    When did the south kidnap it’s slaves. A great trade existed moving slaves out of Africa, first in to Arab lands, then in to other Islamic lands. Portuguese started importing black slaves in to Europe before Columbus. And Black slaves were being sold in Spanish holdings a century before the first slaves were sold in Jamestown.
    The south bought slaves from their legal owners under the laws of western powers at the time. Slaves were captured by other African tribes, sold to Arabs, transported to the coast, bought by American and European slavers, transported as legal cargo to The Americas to be sold.
    Although the divide was all over slavery and the south fought to defend their property rights, the war was fought to break away from the north.
    No slavery no war, and the south would defend its property, but the war was fought to defend the right of the people to a government they would consent to.
    What other civilized countries had slaves in 1860? China, Siam Japan, all of the Islamic world, the Zulu, just off the top of my head.
    ie: most of the worlds population.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  19. Nov 23, 2019 #2979

    tenngun

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    Oh and let’s not forget the ‘five civilized tribes’.
     
  20. Nov 23, 2019 #2980

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    Although the transatlantic slave trade was banned in 1809 the south was still "importing" (kidnapping ) slaves from Africa right up until the start of the civil war.

    The The schooner Clotilda was the last slave ship to come to America in 1860, it docked at Mobile bay.
    Schooners were used so they could out run the ships trying to stop them.
     

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