The War Between The States Discussions

Discussion in 'Civil War' started by Zonie, Jul 19, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Nov 9, 2019 #2641

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Pardon me, and welcome I see that you are new and I was trying to help you. This discussion is a continuation of a discussion that has gone on for 182 pages. Never has it been a discussion about the weapons. there are numerous weapons related threads that would be more appropriate, rather than interfering with the continuity of this one.

    Here are links to some Springfield threads.

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/posts/1591274/

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/posts/1594757/

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...oters-and-the-enfield-and-other-rifles.40742/


    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/posts/1604125/

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/posts/1596061/

    https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/posts/1601756/

    A simple search for "Enfield" in the search window will give you some enfield results as well.


    I hope this helps.
     
  2. Nov 9, 2019 #2642

    Craig "Wildcat" Wilcox

    Craig "Wildcat" Wilcox

    Craig "Wildcat" Wilcox

    32 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Many thanks, lots of data, and some good references!
     
  3. Nov 9, 2019 #2643

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    If that were true, how did they lose ?
     
  4. Nov 9, 2019 #2644

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    If the civil war taught us anything, it was that the Springfield 1861 and the Enfields were not the pinnacle of gun development during the civil war. The reign of the muzzleoader as a battlefield implement would last only for a few years more. By 1873 they would be officially replaced with the self contained cartridge.
    The civil war ended slavery, and it ended muzzleloaders as king of the battlefield.
     
    arcticap likes this.
  5. Nov 9, 2019 #2645

    nkbj

    nkbj

    nkbj

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    6,577
    Likes Received:
    105
    I tremble for my country now for the same reason.
    How much more do you want to argue over slavery?
     
  6. Nov 9, 2019 #2646

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Not me.
    Jefferson trembled because he knew that slavery was wrong, and that he kept slaves.
    Jefferson's fear came from a guilty conscience, and the thought of being judged.
    I can only imagine that the day slavery ended, he was at finally at peace.

    Many slave owners regretted owning slaves, but they were rich. The only thing a rich man fears more than being judged, is being poor.
     
  7. Nov 9, 2019 #2647

    nkbj

    nkbj

    nkbj

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    6,577
    Likes Received:
    105
    Why cannot people consumed with that dividing of the USA recognize who and what created it? Afraid to see?

    Those people got duped. Sucked in. They marched off as a bunch of zombied idiots to kill each other and all the while going yippie hooray like going to a stuperbowel football game. And they never once whacked who needed it.
     
  8. Nov 9, 2019 #2648

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Can you see the egg in a cake ? the salt? the water? the vanilla? A trumpet makes noise but an orchestra makes music. No, things are never as simple as we want them to be.
     
    Treestalker likes this.
  9. Nov 9, 2019 #2649

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    10,841
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Out numbered, and lacking manufacturing to fight the first modern war, too broad of a frontier to defend, no navy so inability to defend the coast, the decision to ‘not surrender one foot of sacred southern soil’ so resources squandered defending areas randomly instead of concentrating forces, many generals unable to grapple with new tactics ( even Lee suffered with the idea of not leaving the enemy in control of the battlefield).
     
  10. Nov 9, 2019 #2650

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    The minority is always outnumbered.
     
  11. Nov 9, 2019 #2651

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    It was a war of ideals as much as anything, and the better ones won.
    Even if the South had prevailed, another war would have started soon after.

    Lee also suffered over the issue of slavery, secession and the war in general.
    Lee said;

    “When I measure my own by that standard I am filled with confusion and despair. that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country."

    He also said;

    "Madam, don't bring up your sons to detest the United States government. Recollect that we form one country now. Abandon all these local animosities, and make your sons Americans."
    Advice to a Confederate widow who expressed animosity towards the northern U.S. after the end of the American Civil War, as quoted in The Life and Campaigns of General Lee (1875) by Edward Lee Childe, p. 331.

    And he said;

    "You see what a poor sinner I am, and how unworthy to possess what was given me; for that reason, it has been taken away."
    Letter to his daughter after losing Arlington (25 December 1861)
     
  12. Nov 9, 2019 #2652

    arcticap

    arcticap

    arcticap

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    397
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    "The purposes behind the schism and conflict are ignored" ????
    What proposes?
    I'm at a loss of understanding the meaning that's trying to be conveyed.
    I can't read your mind as to what you mean.



    "And they never once whacked who needed it."
    Who needed to get whacked and why, and why didn't anyone try?
    Which side of the civil war were they on?
    Is everyone afraid to see or is someone afraid to write what they actually mean to say?



    Since you don't seem to agree that slavery was the root cause of the civil war or with Jefferson, then please tell us what you think caused the civil war?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  13. Nov 9, 2019 #2653

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    10,841
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Lee did not want war, and when it was over he wanted only peace and unity
    He fought because he felt his first loyalty was to Virginia.
    Like so many slave owners( Jefferson and Washington included) he was trapped by the amount of personal wealth tied up in his property. One might happily risk their life for a cause ,but by God keep safe thy wallet.
     
  14. Nov 9, 2019 #2654

    arcticap

    arcticap

    arcticap

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    397
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    CORRECTION - THIS PASSAGE WAS WRITTEN BY MARTIN LUTHUR KING IN HIS "I HAD A DREAM SPEECH" AND NOT THOMAS JEFFERSON.
    I BELIEVE THAT KING WAS PARAPHRASING LINCOLN'S INTERPRETATION OF THE DECLARATION AS HAS BEEN NOTED PREVIOUSLY.
    MEA CULPA.
     
  15. Nov 9, 2019 #2655

    arcticap

    arcticap

    arcticap

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    397
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    This Wiki Section "Late 1850s: Arlington plantation and the Custis slaves" explains Lee's financial crises after his father-in-law died in 1857.
    The Custis plantations were losing money and the slaves didn't want to work for Lee for another 5 years as the father-in-law's will stipulated.
    The slaves wanted immediate freedom.
    Lee had to take 2 years off from military duty to deal with the crises. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee#Late_1850s:_Arlington_plantation_and_the_Custis_slaves
     
  16. Nov 9, 2019 #2656

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    I agree.
     
  17. Nov 9, 2019 #2657

    nkbj

    nkbj

    nkbj

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    6,577
    Likes Received:
    105
    Speaks for itself; consumed.
    Nonsense.
     
  18. Nov 9, 2019 #2658

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Jabberwocky

    ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    He took his vorpal sword in hand;
    Long time the manxome foe he sought—
    So rested he by the Tumtum tree
    And stood awhile in thought.

    And, as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    “And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
    He chortled in his joy.

    ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.


    Published in 1871 in case anybody wondered.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  19. Nov 9, 2019 #2659

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    10,841
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Robert Heinlein said in his notebooks of Lazarus long : Does history record one instance when the majority was ever right?
    Adams estimated 1/3 of our population supported the revolution Howard Zinn thought it was as little as 10%. I think Zinn was wrong, way too low, but Adams may have been a might generous.
    A tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny.
     
  20. Nov 9, 2019 #2660

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Careful, that's a logic trap.
     

Share This Page



arrow_white