The War Between The States Discussions

[Zonie]

I recently closed a topic called, "Civil War??" because it was developing into a discussion of modern race relationships which have nothing to do with the WBTS.
It had 986 posts in it and a lot of it was informative. For a link to it, click on this:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/civil-war.110730/

That said, as this is the Civil War area of the reenactment section I think we ought to have a place to talk about it.

Discussions about the cause of the war, events that happened during and shortly after the war during the Reconstruction period up to 1875, but not including the Indian Wars, people involved in the war and arms & equipment used in the war, are all acceptable topics.

What is not acceptable are discussions about events or social things that happened after 1875.

 

[satx78247]

Zonie,

I would appreciate the "acceptable period" for discussions on the ML forum being extended to 1900, as some members of our extended family (who were Amer-Indians) were still Prisoners of War of the USA when the Spanish-American War was fought in Cuba. = They were held in stockades in FL & in horrid conditions.
(Of course TWBTS was long over by then.)

Perhaps we need a NEW "category" for the last days of The Wild West.
Also, I've long thought that there should be a separate category for Texas & the Southwest.
(In both cases, muzzleloading arms were commonplace, as privately owned pistols, among The Roughriders in Cuba & even MG Wheeler was carrying/using Colt's Model 1851 Navys, 1860 Armys & a Model of 1862 Pocket Police revolver during the S-A War.)

Just my OPINIONS, satx

 

[PluggedNickel]

It would seem the Un-civil war has never really been settled, and maybe never will be. In fact, many believe we are headed for round two. The wounds are constantly being reopened. Issues like reparations, and the defacing of confederate monuments, and dang near anything of southern history and heritage being under attack by the SJW idiots, just adds fuel to the fire. Just my opinion.
I get your point though Zonie. It is hard to keep current race related issues out of period topics of WBTS.

 

[Zonie]

Sorry to hear about your relatives and their problems but this topic is about the WBTS It is not about what happened after the period of reconstruction.

The only reason I extended the date to 1875 is I feel that the period of reconstruction following the war should not be out of bounds for the discussions.
If you others think I should limit the discussions to end with the end of the war in 1865, let me know. I should point out that I have never heard of anyone reenacting things in the South or the North after 1865.

 

[Zonie]

It would seem the Un-civil war has never really been settled, and maybe never will be. In fact, many believe we are headed for round two. The wounds are constantly being reopened. Issues like reparations, and the defacing of confederate monuments, and dang near anything of southern history and heritage being under attack by the SJW idiots, just adds fuel to the fire. Just my opinion.
I get your point though Zonie. It is hard to keep current race related issues out of period topics of WBTS.

This is a fine example of exactly what I don't want this topic to turn into.
If this is where this topic is headed, I'll delete the whole thing right now.

 

[Carbon 6]

The only reason I extended the date to 1875 is I feel that the period of reconstruction following the war should not be out of bounds for the discussions.
If you others think I should limit the discussions to end with the end of the war in 1865, let me know. I should point out that I have never heard of anyone reenacting things in the South or the North after 1865.

1875 works for me. Heck, the last rebel state wasn't readmitted to the union until 1870. We really can't tell the story of the Civil War without a complete ending.

 

[tenngun]

Maybe a post WTBS heading?
We have lots of ml historically used right up to the founding of the NMLRA. Appalachian and ozarks and much of the west saw lots of ml use. And lots of history even though not a lot of reinactors

 

[PluggedNickel]

In fact, as you all well know. I have the hardest time keeping my comments in the periods of this forum. I have to delete posts that can’t keep on topic and in the past.
I find myself posting less on these topics because of it too. Although, I enjoy reading and learning from the true historians on this forum, who always warn they are posting their opinion, or understanding of the topic at hand. As with all things historical, there are opinions, and errors. And since we were not there to see with our own eyes, we tend to believe the version of events that suits our liking the best.
For sure there were people full of bs telling tall tales, and history often morphs into myth, and myth becomes truth. In regard to TWBS, I have found, most of what I learned in school books was the North’s sanitized version of it, over simplified, and often deliberately painting the Southerners to be the “bad guys.”
They say there are always two sides to every story. In reality, issues as complicated as the civil war, are never as simple to explain as just the North vs South versions. The truth is hard to find, and often times, what we believe about historical events as true, turns out to be totally false.
The older I get, the more I am finding out, many things I held as the gospel truth, are dead wrong.
That is never an easy pill to swallow.

 

[satx78247]

1875 works for me. Heck, the last rebel state wasn't readmitted to the union until 1870. We really can't tell the story of the Civil War without a complete ending.

Carbon 6,

Things out West were VERY different than they were "back east", even in 1900. = My great-grandmother fought off a large group of Comanchero/Comanche renegades after my grandfather was born in 1873, by taking the 5 young children, a DB 14 gauge shotgun, a pistol, a hound-dog & "holing up in" the fruit cellar.
(My grandfather was then a "babe at the breast".)
The murderers kept trying to charge down the narrow/steep stairs into the fruit cellar, only to meet more buckshot "coming out of the darkness".
When neighbors came to see what all the shooting was about, THE FRANKLIN COUNTY MESSENGER (then published Monday & Friday) said that, "- - - -- the dooryard was strewn with the bodies of dead & dying renegades. Those invaders who could do so, took to their horses & escaped. The wounded were dispatched."
(The female of almost every species will "fight to the death" to protect their young.)

Note: My great-grandmother was a "mail-order bride" from Pomerania & by choice spoke little English. - Mother said that when she was a girlchild that she would ask, "Little Grandmother, don't you speak English?" & she said that children always got the same answer, "I will not."
(When she passed away of "advanced age & infirmities" in 1939, she wanted to be returned to her hometown to be buried with her parents but WWII had started & as a result she was buried at the Baptist Cemetery at Gray Rock, TX.)
Btw, my cousin Robert Sterling L _____ has the Dublin-made 13-gauge ML shotgun & plans to will it to the county museum upon his passing.

yours, satx

 

[PluggedNickel]

Pick on a defenseless woman will ya! Don’t poke mama bear! LOL. Loved it, thanks for sharing!

 

[satx78247]

Maybe a post WTBS heading?
We have lots of ml historically used right up to the founding of the NMLRA. Appalachian and ozarks and much of the west saw lots of ml use. And lots of history even though not a lot of reinactors

tenngun,

VERY TRUE.
(I've even heard that "some born in the wrong century folks" have clung tightly onto their flintlock arms for hunting & other pursuits until now. = CHUCKLE.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

Pick on a defenseless woman will ya! Don’t poke mama bear! LOL. Loved it, thanks for sharing!

PluggedNickel,

In case you're wondering where my great-grandfather & his hired-men were that day, they had taken several railcars full of pigs to the market in Ft Worth.= Our extended family's business since the 18th century (until "the open range" closed in the mid-1950s) was breeding mules, raising swine & making/selling "white likker".
(I've often wondered if the raiders "came to visit" because they were aware that only a farmeress & young children were alone on the farm OR if it was just happenstance. = In either case, the raiders got more than they bargained for.)

yours, satx

 

[Shot deer]

With a little redirecting, the thread "Civil War??" could have got back on topic, and more good discussion about the TWBTS/TWBS could have been made. But some people are impatient, have a closed mind, not open to people challenging their views, even if they know it is right thereof, and are the "attackers" that people sometimes complain (rightfully so) about. That thread could have been so helpful to people that want to reenact the Civil War, but now it is closed. That's a shame, and what's also a shame that any thread that could have that same discussion would be closed because of those same few people who ruin it, among all the other things on the forum. Plenty of people, including myself, might have got a little touchy or out of subject on that thread, but lacking a reason to close it.

(Not referencing any single person, save myself, in my post.)

 

[Zonie]

So far, I haven't seen a single post that has anything to do with the WBTS. Why is that?

Has the Battle of Shiloh and similar things already been covered in the other topic?

 

[Eutycus]

As long as we are discussing re enacting,I got a few questions. Who would honestly know if a .44 caliber Navy is being used instead of a .36? Would the spectators really know? Are the actors putting on a show for each other or the spectators?

 

[Shot deer]

So far, I haven't seen a single post that has anything to do with the WBTS. Why is that?

Has the Battle of Shiloh and similar things already been covered in the other topic?

Please elaborate.

 

[satx78247]

So far, I haven't seen a single post that has anything to do with the WBTS. Why is that?

Has the Battle of Shiloh and similar things already been covered in the other topic?

Zonie,

I wonder how many threads have focused on Shiloh on this forum??

I'll frankly say that discussing the WBTS battles themselves are of only passing interest to me, as I'm NOT a re-enactor (usually, you will find me working "behind the scenes" at such events & like to think that those of us, who are doing those things, are not wasting our time.), am a political/cultural historian & and am also a dedicated ML hunter.
(While I own & occasionally wear a CSA Captain of Artillery dress uniform, complete with boots/plumed hat, I'm normally only seen in uniform at CSA memorial ceremonies, like Decoration Day & the wreath laying at ANC. - Fyi, for more than 2 decades, I was in charge of the ANC 1st Sunday in June Ceremony at Jackson Circle & of the "by invitation only" Memorial/Prayer Ceremony at the boulder just west of GEN Lee's home.)

Further, I like to think that there is room for all sorts of people, of differing interests, in the ML subculture & upon this site, too.

yours, satx

 

[Juice Jaws]

Here we go again

 

[Carbon 6]

So far, I haven't seen a single post that has anything to do with the WBTS. Why is that?

Has the Battle of Shiloh and similar things already been covered in the other topic?

In a way I think it's all related.
What we really have is 4 distinct Civil War topics.
1. Pre-war lead up
2. The actual war itself.
3. Post war reconstruction.
4. How people reconcile the war in the 21st century.

There are also fascinating side topics, For example; The source of emotional attachment that the Civil War topic exhibits among some individuals. I think understanding this is of key importance to everyone interested in the war. The Civil War seems to engage people emotionally on a level that far exceeds any other war. I myself wonder if it has always been this way or is it something that has been learned and ingrained over time.
No matter how we slice it, The Civil War is an interesting topic. And I have many unanswered questions.

 

[rshveyda]

In a way I think it's all related.
What we really have is 4 distinct Civil War topics.
1. Pre-war lead up
2. The actual war itself.
3. Post war reconstruction.
4. How people reconcile the war in the 21st century.

There are also fascinating side topics, For example; The source of emotional attachment that the Civil War topic exhibits among some individuals. I think understanding this is of key importance to everyone interested in the war. The Civil War seems to engage people emotionally on a level that far exceeds any other war. I myself wonder if it has always been this way or is it something that has been learned and ingrained over time.
No matter how we slice it, The Civil War is an interesting topic. And I have many unanswered questions.

I would respectfully suggest #4 and the grudge so many seem to still be carrying has little place on the reenacting forums, and that is exactly the problem I believe Zonie is trying to end. Seems we can't discuss the past without fighting that damn war all over again.

That said, I will say no more, as I don't believe Zonie started this thread for us to carry the discussion from that thread over to here. I hope everyone else gets the hint, too.