The tale of my new Uberti 1851 Navy

[Trooper Joe]

I just found this great forum and this is my first post.

I just bought a new Uberti 1851 from Dixie Gun Woks and it is beautiful. However, even when I first took it out of the box (it was shipped direct to my home – how neat is that?), I found that the wedge was very loose (could be moved around with just a little finger pressure).

I took out the wedge screw and I could then push it all the way in with just finger pressure.


[/URL
]
I did a lot of research and found that this is a common problem. During the research I learned about the importance of arbor seating in the barrel frame as well as other issues to be aware of.

I called the gunsmith at DGW and he advised that they are aware of this issue as well as Uberti. He advised that they will be receiving a box of oversized 1851 wedges some time after the first of the year. I also discussed with him about my idea of trying to shim my current wedge since it seemed like I had the correct depth on my arbor hole in the barrel frame (my theory, and he agreed, the arbor should bottom out in this hole once I have a tight enough wedge).

So I tried different shims starting with .004 shim stock from my motorcycle repair days, and ending up with a .008 borrowed from and old set of feeler gauges which seemed just right.

[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/bmwjoey/p/2f263e48-f5e9-45ea-8a5d-e0ca41d9535c] [/URL
]
[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/bmwjoey/p/3fdd1edc-8f61-47f7-b5ba-b43c22a1fc61] [/URL
]
[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/bmwjoey/p/b9fe4108-ae71-48ee-b4ac-a153faf26606]

I tried to silver solder the shim onto the side of the wedge towards the muzzle with no luck (got to brush up on the techniques for silver soldering). So I used some Loctite equivalent of JB Weld and it seemed to work just fine. After keeping it clamped overnight, I cleaned it up and touched it up with cold blue.

(Cleaned up)

[/URL
]
(Cold blue applied)

[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/bmwjoey/p/a5e69c7b-915e-4684-93cb-5657d4c15227] [/URL
]
[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/bmwjoey/p/8f61c02b-20bb-4aa8-9baa-5fbf324f184a] [/URL
]
Now it looks like I can actually reinstall the wedge screw although in the case of my gun, it is just for looks and is something else I would have to remove when I take the wedge out. My wedge will not fall out on it’s own or even have the right side slip into the frame since the wedge spring works very well.



After installing my modified wedge, I checked the cylinder to barrel clearance and it seems to be a nice .004. If my epoxy job holds up, I think I have this issue figured out about a loose barrel wedge.

One other interesting thing on my gun, I ordered one of the excellent nipple wrenches made by Ted Cash. (Hardened steel). I wanted to take out the reportedly very tight nipples, clean and apply anti seize grease to the threads, and reinstall them not so overly tight. However, much to my surprise, about three nipples could be unscrewed without the use of the wrench. The other three were tight, but not so tight that I could not get them out with the wrench properly applied on the nipples (straight on and not cocked sideways, etc.).

I guess the guys that finished the assembly on my model 1851 at the Uberti factory where in a hurry to get home that day . However, with the help of the wealth of information I found on this forum, other research, and discussing this with the great company gun smith at Dixie Gun Works, this gun is going to turn out to be one of my favorites.

Will get back with more information after my first trip to the range.

Trooper Joe

 

[ZUG]

No need to remove that screw every time you take the wedge out. It is there to prevent the wedge from being lost. Just pull back the wedge until the the wedge spring catches on the screw head.

 

[Ranger94]

Great post. I never would have thought to epoxy a shim. (I normally use a business card). Your technique is better!!

 

[LST-1185]

Had the same problem with a dragoon but in this case the barrel wedge slot got stretched. I applied a .012 shim that I made from a steel dog food can to the front of the arbor slot using professional strength super glue. This worked fine and the cylinder gap is set to .003. Best regards.

 

[Timber Wolf]

Yep, I had the same experience recently with an Uberti 1851. They sent a call tag and I sent it back to Benelli. A few weeks later they sent me another, much better fitted, gun. They made it right, but they shouldn’t have had to. I lost interest after the experience and the new one sits unfired.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The new Piettas are much better fitted than than the new Ubertis. The arbors are the proper length and the wedges fit perfectly. The wedge should not stick out very far on the opposite side on a new gun, much less bottom out like that! It is my opinion that Uberti quality continues to fall while Pietta quality gets better and better.

 

[Trooper Joe]

Just went to the range today and fired 5 rounds. Group could be covered with a quarter at 25 feet.

Had to use .380 ball (.357 actually would not stay in the chamber). Used CCI #10 and 20 grains of Goex Black Powder FFFG. I pushed the #10 caps on with a wooden dowel and had no problems with them at all. Elevation and windage were spot on.

Cylinder to barrel end play went from a tight .004 to a tight .005 (seems OK). Wedge shim still looks real nice.

So far I am a happy camper.

Thanks for all the comments.

Trooper Joe

 

[Stantheman86]

Could you not simply whack the wedge with a mallet a few times to "expand " it? The steel used in these guns is very mild.

Italian made Cap and Ballers vary wildly in fit and finish, it seems Uberti does a better job with their more expensive big Horse pistols . I own and have owned several and all have been flawless.

Uberti and Pietta sometimes get lazy with the QC because they know most people will barely shoot these. Cimarron reportedly has higher standards for QC and gets the "cream" of the Uberti's.

 

[Trooper Joe]

Could you not simply whack the wedge with a mallet a few times to "expand " it? The steel used in these guns is very mild.

Italian made Cap and Ballers vary wildly in fit and finish, it seems Uberti does a better job with their more expensive big Horse pistols . I own and have owned several and all have been flawless.

Uberti and Pietta sometimes get lazy with the QC because they know most people will barely shoot these. Cimarron reportedly has higher standards for QC and gets the "cream" of the Uberti's.

I didn,t know about this. I thought the wedges were hardened and peening them or doing as you suggested (I never heard of this) would not work with a hardened surface. Your suggestion is interesting however. I wonder if that is how they are "adjusted" when you send them in for warranty work?

Thanks,

Trooper Joe

 

[Stantheman86]

I actually was given this course of action years ago when I owned Piettas , I had peened the wedge slot on a Pietta .36 1851 Navy by shooting heavy loads with conicals, the Pietta customer rep said they don't heat treat their barrels and wedges they are just mild gun grade steel due to Blackpowder Firearms not being regulated by SAAMI. They are strong enough for blackpowder but not Ordnance Steel like a gun made for smokeless.

Pietta recommended I simply take a brass punch and whack the wedge slot back into shape and a man on another Forum told me to just lay my wedge on a firm work bench and give it a good wack with a wood mallet, etc and test fit....repeat as required.

It is very likely how they fix them at the factory. We're not talking $12,000 Korths here .

The wedge is likely hardened but still soft enough to have a little give to it. Which is partly why my Uberti Dragoon used to need to be pried apart, now it pretty much comes apart under just hand strength.

Probably how they fixed them back in the period. Give the wedge a few wacks.

Reading some of the old Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith stuff, they jim wacked a lot of guns to make them work better. Those old time , original "gun guy pioneers " messed with cap and ballers too.

 

[wb78963]

since I shoot a lot of snubbies with no loading lever, my wedges are set to be just thumb tight.
Reloading is done off the gun so an overly tight wedge makes loading a chore.
They go back in thumb tight and usually a light tap with a soft hammer brings them out.
At least that works for me. In point of fact did work yesterday for three reloads on both guns.
(I have two hands)
Hold center
Bunk

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd still get a new wedge or two out of Uberti but from experience , wacking them will improve the fit if they're sloppy. Just work slow and test after each wack.

The first Paterson revolvers were loaded by disassembling the gun , and honestly unless you were using combustible paper cartridges, these weren't really reloaded "in the field " so a cylinder loader makes things a lot easier for casual range shooting and actually saves stress on the gun from loading .

 

[Grumpa]

Trooper Joe, you did well. These "old" guns, bore diameter was measured land to land, hence .36 caliber. But they are true .38s groove to groove, as we measure today. Hence .36s will use a .380 ball. Likewise, .44s are true .45 caliber, my Remington NMA takes a .457 ball. (some use .454). When you ram the ball in the cylinder, a thin ring of lead should be shaved off, which assures a tight fit/seal. Also, not necessary to put lube over top the ball. If you are going to do a good bit of shooting in an afternoon, you can use a lightly lubed wad between the powder and ball, that will keep fouling down. And some grease on the arbor, too. Enjoy your Navy Colt. And Welcome to the Forum.

Richard/Grumpa