The Punt Gun

[DickS]

Many years ago, I read a book about punt gunning in the UK, as it was practiced at that time - mid 20th century. Some guns were ml, others bl. Considerable effort was put into making a single shot, and the bag for the season was not much different than that of a conventional waterfowler.
Are punt guns/punt gun barrels still being made in the UK?
In North America, I don't believe anything over 10ga can be used for waterfowling, and non lead shot is mandated.

 

[BrownBear]

In the area I spent my middle years "scull" boats reminiscent of that were still widely in use. Most were modern manufactured models (google "duck hunting scull boats") and resided in many a truck during the lengthy waterfowl season as originals lurked lovingly in many a garage. Due to the predominance of canvas back ducks and brandt geese on local waters and the premium paid for them in the market days, there are also a lot of punt guns passed down through the generations. It's been fun for me to see what was in use across the pond weighed against our own.

 

[Feltwad]

In the area I spent my middle years "scull" boats reminiscent of that were still widely in use. Most were modern manufactured models (google "duck hunting scull boats") and resided in many a truck during the lengthy waterfowl season as originals lurked lovingly in many a garage. Due to the predominance of canvas back ducks and brandt geese on local waters and the premium paid for them in the market days, there are also a lot of punt guns passed down through the generations. It's been fun for me to see what was in use across the pond weighed against our own.

Enclosed are images of punt and also the stocks of punt guns
Feltwad

Inside the punt complete with paddles


The style of punt gun stocks both original have been flintlock .The top one has the stock shaped to allow the recoil rope to enter then onto the front of the punt this is too take the recoil

 

[dodger]

A video

https://youtu.be/QXHCwjUl4Cs

There is a part 2 .

 

[BrownBear]

All our boats are in fact sculled rather than paddled with the two gunners laying flat. The forward hatch combing has small slits cut into it for viewing on the approach to the birds rather than chancing a raised head at the wrong moment.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I think someone mentioned a 4-bore above, but a 4-bore is really too small for a punt -gun, and most were a lot bigger

Interesting that you say that, for a 4-bore is 1.05, and a 2-bore is 1.33, while the guys using the mid 19th century punt gun in the video are only using a 1.25 caliber punt.

LD

 

[BrownBear]

I think someone mentioned a 4-bore above, but a 4-bore is really too small for a punt -gun, and most were a lot bigger

Interesting that you say that, for a 4-bore is 1.05, and a 2-bore is 1.33, while the guys using the mid 19th century punt gun in the video are only using a 1.25 caliber punt.

LD

All that I saw were in the realm of 4- to 2-bore, too. It was interesting to talk to the few users still living almost 50 years ago, as well as recounted tales from their descendants. There was a LOT of strategy in the use of punt guns. Most shooting was done just before dawn or on bright moonlit nights- times when you could see the flocks on the water and have light to chase down the cripples (actually the majority of harvest was the cripples).

They'd position the boat upwind or up-current of the of the flock at some distance, then drift down on them with the slow help of the sculling oar. Timing of the shot was critical, and you never shot at a flock resting on the water. When in range you'd slap the side of the boat and sit up, timing the shot for the moment all those wings went up, but the birds hadn't quite lifted off the water. By the time the shot arrived on target, the birds were in the first foot or so off the water, exposing more of their bodies to the shot than while sitting. Broken wings were a plus, resulting in lots more cripples. Then you'd spend the next hour or more chasing down cripples.

In a refinement, the scull boats had detachable lead keels held in place by ropes. The lead keels settled the boats deeply in the water for the approach and helped straighten the course while sculling. But once you made your shot you dropped the keel (marked with a buoy of course), then switched to conventional oars for chasing cripples and the sometimes long row back home. As a final act you recovered the keel and dragged it into the cockpit. It was possible to remount the keel while afloat, but the preferred method was to beach the boat before doing so, also allowing you to reload the gun if another opportunity was likely. It was often academic because most "hunts" were one-shot affairs.

All second-hand of course, but from the horse's mouth.

 

[matttdalton]

These guns were amazing. There's a lot of neat books about them, the boats that carried them and the men that used them. After reading everything I could easily find on the subject and put it into practice, but with a 10ga shoulder gun, the punts/boats and skills of the paddler/oarsman/sculler are what made this effective and still is just as effective today. Sculling through the stern and staying hidden is the best if you, your boat and waterway can make it happen. But if you hide your motions with a scull paddle stroke over the side of a canoe, kayak, or other boat, it's a very close 2nd. The paddle is my weapon because my rivers are either too shallow and rocky or too high and dangerous to use a scull oar.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave,

I stand by what I said, that (historically) the 4 -bore is really too light to be classed as a punt -gun.
Even the 2-bore is below normal for a British punt-gun. Most fired at least a pound of shot, and the gun weighed about 96 lbs. Yes, some small ones were used, but the great majority were at least one-pounders.
Look up the photo of Sir Ralph -Payne Gallwey in his gun -room, and you will see his punt -guns, and there is nothing in the 1/4 -half pound class. (4 to 2-bore)
Brown Bear,
In the above I am not talking about N America, as I am ignorant of what was used over here.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Just found this link for you, Dave & all.
http://www.wildfowling.com/puntgun.htm

If you scroll down a short way, it'll show a list of UK punt-gun bore sizes and charges.
It starts at half pounders, (no 4-bores) and goes up to 1 3/4" bores, throwing 28 ounces.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[BrownBear]

I wonder if that doesn't also reflect a difference in shot size used there and here. If larger shot, it would take larger charges to achieve similar pattern densities. Most common among the folks I knew here was US #2. Any clue what was used there?

 

[Gene L]

Says bb. It also briefly mentions 4 bore, but I infer it's not mounted and can be fired from the shoulder.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm sure that would depend on the size of charge being used. Slather it with 8 oz of shot or so (typical charge among the folks I knew) and enough powder, and I certainly wouldn't want it against my shoulder!

 

[Feltwad]

I'm sure that would depend on the size of charge being used. Slather it with 8 oz of shot or so (typical charge among the folks I knew) and enough powder, and I certainly wouldn't want it against my shoulder!

The two punt guns at the beginning of this thread are bore size 1.1/4 inches .Has for shot size the larger size such has BB ,1to 4 shot was common small shot for shooting starlings in the reed beds was used but was not a common shot size for punt gunning has these guns shot better with large shot .
Feltwad

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I stand by what I said, that (historically) the 4 -bore is really too light to be classed as a punt -gun.
Even the 2-bore is below normal for a British punt-gun.

I'm happy for your stand, but I didn't refute you. :haha:

I merely pointed out that the guys in the British punt-gun-society in the video, who actually still hunt with a punt, are using slightly less than a 2-bore at 1.25. The 2-bore itself being only .28 larger diameter than the 4-bore, AND btw a barrel launching a pound of shot need only be 1.670. The video-fellows are using a bore that is less than 1/2" smaller than that, is all. :wink:

LD

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave,
In the above I said "Historically"...and what was usual in the hey- day.
I was quite specific that I was not talking about what someone is using now.
A pal back home and myself made a four bore, inc. the barrel & proved it, and we in no way thought of it as a punt gun! This was in the late 1970's.

 

[Feltwad]

Dave,
In the above I said "Historically"...and what was usual in the hey- day.
I was quite specific that I was not talking about what someone is using now.
A pal back home and myself made a four bore, inc. the barrel & proved it, and we in no way thought of it as a punt gun! This was in the late 1970's.

Enclosed is a image of my 4 bore gun been fired at a local Country Fair . I built this gun in the 70,s ,the weight is a lot more heavy than a original because of the steel barrel .The gun is not meant to be carried far but its weight absorbs a lot of the recoil

Feltwad

 

[Gene L]

I figure the 4-bore was too heavy to be carried so it was fired FROM a punt rather than being mounted ON a punt. Probably for smaller quantities of ducks on the water.

 

[Feltwad]

I figure the 4-bore was too heavy to be carried so it was fired FROM a punt rather than being mounted ON a punt. Probably for smaller quantities of ducks on the water.

This gun I have always used for the morning or evening flight with a modest load of 5 drms to 1.3/4 oz of number 3 shot it could bring down geese up to 60 yards and has I said the weight absorbed the recoil. It is not a punt gun and was not needed in a punt it was usual a smaller bore which was used for shooting wounded birds .
Has I said it was used on the flight lines not on sitting shots which is not my line .
Feltwad

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Very nice to see your 4 bore in action, Feltwad.
There were even some 2-bore shoulder guns,(as you know) but you had to be fit and strong to shoulder them! Flighting is the most sporting way to shoot geese and ducks. Even woodies! (...wood pigeons for those this side of pond)

Did you ever go up on the Solway, Feltwad?