That imitation black powder

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by Thunder14, Feb 28, 2019.

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  1. Feb 28, 2019 #1

    Thunder14

    Thunder14

    Thunder14

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    Dont want to get people in a uproar but I have noticed you can’t mention certain products on this sight like you know that modern type projectiles or components even if it would pertain to an explanation to a question that it would give a better understanding to the answer.But yet pyrodex and that other MODERN imitation stuff is mentioned all the time and nobody gets there feathers in a tuff.It just feels like if we are not going to talk about moder then lets not.
     
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  2. Feb 28, 2019 #2

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    I assume you are talking about saboted bullets, plastic shot cups, inlines and such. Lots of people don't have easy access to real BP so all they have to use the fake stuff, the subs get discussed ad nauseum here. The other modern stuff just doesn't fit here, I am sure there are tons of sites that cater to a the flavor of the day commercial so called M/L stuff, this place isn't one of them.
     
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  3. Feb 28, 2019 #3

    Comfortably_Numb

    Comfortably_Numb

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    Real BP is real easy to get, you don't even have to leave the house, they deliver it right to your door. What could be easier?
     
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  4. Feb 28, 2019 #4

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

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    Sadly, we live in a society wear you can go down to Wal-Mart and get any and all of those modern wonder subs, plastic fantastic sabot slugs, 209 primers, etc. etc. but try and find a can of Holy Black, let alone gunflints or powder horns etc, and you’ll be up a drink without a paddle.

    Some would rather take the easy way out rather than enjoy the challenge and the history or pass down our heritage.

    Friend, this is a refuge from that school of thought and that is why those things are not welcome here. We do things not just to bag a deer, or ring a gong, or punch a piece of paper, we do it for the tradition, the legacy, and honor of the men that came before us, before this crazy modern world and it’s trapping.

    So, there are other places to discuss the modern stuff, but it is not here.
     
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  5. Feb 28, 2019 #5

    Thunder14

    Thunder14

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    I’m sorry I think your missing my question I do not advocate discussing modern projectiles or egnition powders or any other modern mambo jumbo but I just noticed the other day someone was explaining different types of projectiles that can be used or should not be used to a newcomer that had some questions and this guy was bashed for explaining why not to use modern projectiles and how it was better to use the traditional round ball or plains bullet or mini maxi ball.I just felt he was not starting a discussion on modern products just trying to set this newcomer down the traditional pathway.There are times where a more involved answer is needed that’s how we learn and teach the traditional ways or our way of life will become just a vaige memory.
     
  6. Feb 28, 2019 #6

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

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    Pyrodex there is no way that I would allow it near my muzzle loaders ,you are sure to get an instant rust in the bore before you get home to clean .If it was the only powder left I would pack in shooting muzzle loaders .
    Feltwad
     
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  7. Feb 28, 2019 #7

    sawyer04

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    I have seen this newfangled stuff in adds and store shelves, something about it just bothers me to use it. I realize it has been around for a while, I'll just stick with gunpowder and round balls. But, this computer thing used to bother me too. Here I sit with all the radio waves around me and feasting my eyes on this forum. Maybe in the next 70 years I'll give the newfangled stuff a try.
     
  8. Feb 28, 2019 #8

    Huntschool

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    Thunder14: It is unfortunate that some folks consider themselves self appointed "Thread Police" and as such feel the need to condemn what folks have said. Even though what was said may well have been the best way to get a point over. When one "talks" (internet) to a new person who has a basic modern firearm understand it may be the best way to convey a thought or suggestion.

    I agree with your premise that such conversations are legit if that is the way in which the listener will best absorb/understand the answer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  9. Feb 28, 2019 #9

    Zonie

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    Eric Krewson hit the nail on the head.

    A lot of people don't have a store around where they live where they can buy real black powder.
    They also don't want to spend $25+ dollars for a Haz Mat fee plus shipping plus the cost of the powder to buy one or two pounds of real black powder and they don't want to buy 5 or 10 pounds of powder. In fact, many of them cannot afford to buy 5 or 10 pounds of powder. Others don't want to have that much black powder in their house.
    Those of you who want to buy large amounts of powder at a time don't have this problem but for those who do, we allow discussions about it.

    As most know, the synthetic black powders can be sold by any place that can sell smokeless powder so, gun stores, big box department stores and even my local Ace hardware can sell it without having special Federally mandated storage and a federal Explosives license.

    I will add, that no, we don't allow discussions about sabots and other bullets containing plastic but mentioning modern cartridges to compare their power with muzzleloading loads is permitted so, if someone wants to say a .36 caliber cap and ball gun is very similar to a .32 auto shooting a .38 caliber bullet, or saying a .44 Walker outpowers a .45 ACP that would be allowed.
     
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  10. Feb 28, 2019 #10

    Howie1968

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    I use both some rifles like pyrodex better than holyblack some rifles like holy black better than the various pyrodex offerings. I burn a lot more pyro than holy black. however it usually takes about 10 days to get holy black to my East texas location. I generally buy 4 lbs at a time which I use Olde Eynesford 2F and 3F I use the 3F mainly its about 108.00 delivered to mydoor andi go through the 4 lbs in about 2 months of holy black. whe im getting low I have no problem using a duplex load ill use 10 grains of OE 2F or 3F as a kicker. 90% of my rifles shoot respectable with80 grains, so if I use a 10 grain kicker I adjust to my load which amounts to 70 grains. I also only use 2F holy black with pyro rs or pyro select if I use 3f I will use the 10 grain kicker with pyro P. the only issue I have with buying powder online iswaisting a day waiting on the fedex guy to show up. im normally in the woods 7 days a week and having to stay home gets me behind on checking cameras getting bait out and running traps. when I signed up I read the stipulations on modern equipment and I can live with it. this sight is a wealth of knowledge. a lot of top notch people here on this sight, yes some may frown on putting pyro in a barrel some frown with using conicals over patched roundballs. at first I couldn't understand the reasoning. After 3 years I understand why people use roundballs so much I fought it for awhile but I finally started using them and even have a few roundball only guns. I still use conicals for the type of hunting I do which is big trophy boars free ranging, hope this has helped shed a little light
     
  11. Feb 28, 2019 #11

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

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    Post removed. :cool:
     
  12. Mar 2, 2019 #12

    Sun City

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    Lots of people don't have easy access to real BP

    Not so! Can be delivered to your front door!!
     
  13. Mar 3, 2019 #13

    54ball

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    Not in all states and Jurisdictions...
    For instance California only allows a person to possess one pound. Who sales and ships one can of powder?
     
  14. Mar 3, 2019 #14

    dave951

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    California is a communist run nanny state. Can't have the peasants owning pitchforks.:eek:

    That said, in the sane parts of the US, a hazmat fee is required for shipping. Most places will combine caps and powder to keep shipping and hazmat as low as possible per order. If you have friends with similar interests then combine orders. We in the NSSA get the majority of our powder from Back Creek at Nationals.
     
  15. Mar 3, 2019 #15

    Juice Jaws

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    No, in Calif one person can own and keep 5 lbs of back powder.
     
  16. Mar 3, 2019 #16

    WRustyLane

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    I have about 5 lbs. of black powder on hand. I keep 2fg (about 3 lbs.) for my main charge, 1 lb. 3fg for my pistol powder and 1 lb. of 4fg for priming. I have a lb. of Pyrodex P which was given to me, but I've never used it. I guess it's over 20 years old by now. I get all my black powder from Bass Pro. They usually have what I need in stock. I keep my powder horns full, one holds about 1 lb. of 2fg and the other usually holds about 1 lb. of 4fg for priming my flinter. And I am a patched round ball purist. I have never rammed a conical down my flintlock and never will. I did buy me a .490 double mould to cast my own round balls. I save out some dead soft lead for my round balls and usually use wheel weights to cast my other (smokeless) bullets both rifle and pistol.
     
  17. Mar 3, 2019 #17

    54ball

    54ball

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    It must be a city or a city/county jurisdiction (local fire regulation) in California allowing one just pound. A member posted about it a few years back. Where he was...I can't recall.
    I don't live there so I'm not sure if that posting was accurate. I will admit California takes a beating sometimes deservingly so, sometimes not.
     
  18. Mar 3, 2019 #18

    Comfortably_Numb

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    I generally keep a couple cases on hand. I usually buy in lots of 10-15lbs to make the hazmat fee less significant when you figure the price per pound. I'm not a rich man, save some money for a month and anybody should be able to afford it.
     
  19. Mar 3, 2019 #19

    Juice Jaws

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    Might be some city law but state law its 5lbs. What most people don't know about Calif. is its a very red state and has lots of rural area and lots of common since people. Its just along the coast and silicon valley that all the crazies live and pass all these left wing laws. Should of left years ago but didn't.
     
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  20. Mar 3, 2019 #20

    Hawgeye

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    Our club buys in large amounts, usually fifty to a hundred pounds. We can generally find black powder for sixteen to eighteen dollars a pound. Shipping and hazmat increases the cost by roughly 40/45%. There is no savings, but at least we have it. None of the retailers in town will stock Holy black but the substitutes they do sell are cheaper than the club purchase by $6:00 a pound. The alternative is driving 750 miles round trip to get real powder at $24 to $30 a pound depending on brand and availability.
     
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