Texas revolution

Discussion in 'General Reenacting Discussions' started by Remember the Alamo, Mar 20, 2018.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Mar 20, 2018 #1

    Remember the Alamo

    Remember the Alamo

    Remember the Alamo

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do any of y'all do any type of texas revolution reanacting?
     
  2. Mar 20, 2018 #2

    rustyh

    rustyh

    rustyh

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Central Texas
    a couple of the guys I shoot with do Goliad I belive their group is the Kentucky Mustangs.
     
    DaveC likes this.
  3. Mar 20, 2018 #3

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,919
    Likes Received:
    992
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Lots of the folks on here do the revolution, many more are in that time frame.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2018 #4

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    458
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I provided a link to the Texas Army in your other post and here too.

    You should find a number of events that you can attend and learn to participate in.

    San Jacinto Days are celebrated on April 21, 2018. San Jacinto Link
     
  5. Mar 23, 2018 #5

    BillinOregon

    BillinOregon

    BillinOregon

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,825
    Likes Received:
    127
    Maybe Birdwatcher will see this thread and chime in.
     
  6. Mar 26, 2018 #6

    Billnpatti

    Billnpatti

    Billnpatti

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,340
    Likes Received:
    10
    There is a group who does a Texas Revolution impression in San Antonio at The Alamo and a few other historic locations. You can get more info from one of our members, Old Grey Wolf. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showuser.php?uid/16308/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  7. Aug 1, 2019 #7

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Clarksburg, WV
    I would like to email any body that can steer me in the right direction for sutlers or blanket traders that caries 1830 type clothes and equipment.Have firearms that fit the period.
     
  8. Aug 1, 2019 #8

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,919
    Likes Received:
    992
    Location:
    Republic mo
    Townsend and son, much of the rendezvous clothing in crazy crow or Jedediah Star.
    Basically you want broad fall trousers, suspenders were common but a small belt buckle in the back to tighten up the waist was known.
    Shirt, vest with a low v at the neck about waist length and neck cloth.
    Waist length light coats, tail coats and thigh length coats were all in style then. Those are hard to find. You often have to make one or have it made.
    Neck cloth was normal wear. Wheel hats, top hats, bonnets and low crown felt hats were common. Straw hats were in style for summer.
    Sights like Fugawe offer shoes that fit the bill for this time. People that wore moccs also had shoes.
    Overcoats were taylored. Most stopped at the knee.
     
    DaveC likes this.
  9. Aug 1, 2019 #9

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Clarksburg, WV
    I have new 1839 forage cap with fold down cape 50.00 1841 Mississippi riflemans bullet bag with Beaty peace flask attached. 80.00 Maybe some one can use them.
     
  10. Aug 2, 2019 #10

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

    32 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    86
    Cloth, clothing, and footwear among actual colonists were mighty scarce and in demand. There are wonderful descriptions of social dances where the beaus with shoes loaned them out to other guys who only had mocs so they could stomp on the wood.

    The flurry of U.S. volunteers arrived mostly shod and with clothing from entrepots like New Orleans and other more commercial outlets.

    The Texian "Army of the People" would have been mighty eclectic, and there would have been lots of buckskin--clammy and wet in winter, hot in summer, but long-wearing--simply because tanned hides were available. Later, work clothes typical of the frontier and even some nice vests, coats, etc. would have been in greater evidence. Hunting frocks were popular, but by no means universal. Roundabout jackets, frock coats, and tail coats would all be essentially "correct" in cool weather. Shirts and vests in warmer weather.

    The current thinking on the New Orleans Greys has it that while they were indeed the most "uniform" outfit of volunteers, convincing some Indians that they were U.S. troops, they actually went to the equivalent of a western outfitter and bought up gray wool or jean wool roundabout jackets and trousers, not surplus U.S. uniforms as was incorrectly inferred from the above Indian comments. Many apparently did acquire model 1817 Common rifles in .54. Others 1795 and 1816 pattern smoothbores. Still others got weapons gifted by citizens in New Orleans. For headgear, a number acquired "seal skin caps" like hunters and travelers wore... Think Elmer Fudd hunting caps with fur ear-flaps. I intend to do a New Orleans Grey impression this autumn, but mine will be a dated portrayal with ex-U.S. army gear mixed in... Like the Model 1825 chako/forage cap...
     
  11. Aug 5, 2019 #11

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    tom berwinkle

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Clarksburg, WV
    Thanks for all the in depth article you sent me. I have one more question. all the articles and expert writings note that most defenders at the Alamo used there old muskets or rifles brought from home.predominantly flint. There is a belief that some percussions there also by the digs there and finding percussion caps. some learned individual scholars state there may have been a few half stock plains type rifles they didn't say whether they had an opinion as to flint or percussion. what do you feel about this? Tom
     
  12. Aug 6, 2019 #12

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

    32 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    86
    There were some 800+ "firelocks" of various kinds seized at the Alamo after the battle by the Mexican Centralists. That gives every defender some three or even four guns. Most of those were very likely stands of arms--e.g. cartridge box, bayonet, musket--left by Gen. Martin Perfecto de Cós when he marched out in Dec. 1835. Others were weapons brought in by the Texians who'd stormed Bexar, or those volunteers who arrived after.

    Travis had a double-barrel shotgun. Likely a flintlock. Mirabeau B. Lamar--who was not at the Alamo, of course, was a wealthy man and had a caplock percussion double gun. There is a debate about whether David Crockett had his lock changed to a percussion gun when he was in Tennessee before he came to Texas. Percussion technology was coming into vogue, and it was on the cusp of being adopted and completely supplanting the flintlock. Most arms in the Texas Revolution would have been flintlocks, however.

    There is a receipt for a "carabina"--which could be a weapon with a 38-in. barrel or "Dragoon length" since a true cavalry carbine was a "tercerola" while a "scuppet" was the "escopeta"--given to James Bowie when he was residing in San Antonio in the pre-Revolution period. It is in the Bexar Archives located at the Dolph Briscoe Center for American History at UT-Austin.

    The first Company of New Orleans Greys are thought to have had mostly 1795 U.S. muskets, perhaps some model 1816s, and perhaps some earlier types of militia muskets. The second Company apparently had very many Model 1817 Common Rifles, although some sources assert it would have been the 1814 rifle? In either case, this was a flintlock. Most Texians brought their guns from home, including very many fowlers and long rifles. Others arrived unarmed, waiting to get a firearm of some sort. So captured Napoleonic-era English-pattern arms from the Mexican forces would have been used too. Mexican powder, however, was usually rejected. It was poor quality, and some researchers think it had too much charcoal in the first place. Volunteers and suppliers in the United States also shipped arms to the Texians.

    When Texas became the independent Lone Star Republic, the Texas Army adopted the Model 1816 musket for line infantry, but right away all kinds of innovative and unusual arms came into use in Texas. The Colt Paterson revolver, 5-shot .40 cal., the Model 1839 Colt revolving carbines, rifles, and shotguns, the Jenks carbine, the Hall rifle and carbine, etc. This set up a dialogue between Texas Rangers and gun manufactories back East. Before long, Colt brought out the Walker hand-cannon at the behest of Samuel Walker so the ball would penetrate the tough layers of bison hide and packed rawhide and grass stuffing of the Comanche war shield. Colt was designing his Navy revolver and got word that some of his revolvers of the earlier type had been used by the Texas Navy in battle in the Bay of Campeche, so he put the Texas Navy on the roll engraving of the cylinder of the Model 1851 Navy.
     
  13. Aug 6, 2019 #13

    Tanglefoot

    Tanglefoot

    Tanglefoot

    Pilgrim

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Texas
    This's for Dave C:
    Amigo, If you've got a .40 caliber Paterson, I'd be tickled to see it! Every Paterson I've ever seen was a .36, which bore size was carried over to the Navy models.
    I'm told that penetrating Commanche shields was one of the reasons Walker gave for wanting a more powerful handgun.
    The other big one was that the Paterson design was flimsy and tended to come apart if you clubbed an opponent with it. Turned out the Walker Colt didn't do that. Also, the Walker carried what was basically a rifle payload in each chamber, and if you missed the rider, the Walker would take down his pony.
     
    DaveC likes this.
  14. Aug 6, 2019 #14

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    The "Flayderman's Guide To Antique American Firearms...and their values", 9th ed., gives the caliber of the various Colt Paterson revolvers as:

    Model No. 1 (1837-1838) = .28
    Model No. 2 (1837-1840) = .31
    Model No. 3 (1837-1840) = .31
    Model No. 5 (1838-1840) = .36

    No mention of a Model No. 4 is made.

    As the battle of the Alamo was fought in 1836 it is doubtful that any of the Colt Paterson pistols were there.
     
    DaveC likes this.
  15. Aug 7, 2019 #15

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

    32 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    86
    A double-pistol was apparently unearthed at the Alamo. Of course the Alamo continued long after as a U.S. Army post, so stuff from the 1840s and 1850s abounds too... horse shoes, mule gear, bridle fittings, mule blinders, etc. etc. etc.

    Some of the Patersons used against the Numunu/Comanche apparently were the .31 and .36 types. There is an anecdote that during the so-called "Council House Fight" at Main Plaza in San Antonio one of the Comanche chiefs fighting to resist being made a hostage to ensure the return of Anglo-Texan captives grabbed the front of the barrel of a Paterson and pulled the whole front of the weapon off the cylinder and frame!

    Bottom line: The 19th-C. technological revolution in firearms was swift, and it mostly came after the Texas Revolution...
     
  16. Aug 7, 2019 #16

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Wilbarger’s Trace
    DaveC,

    Was in conversation with a mutual friend of ours while at the Rocky Mountain National Rendezvous about 3 weeks ago. Apparently there is a new book coming out on the Gutierrez de Lara/Magee expedition. Suppose to be full of "new" stuff. Just tossing it out in case you hadn’t heard. Just something we were discussing one evening.

    For me, I prefer 1820-25 as my time period limit. Actually, 1790-1815 is perfect! I tend to stear clear of military operations, ( I am old) and stick with civilian impressions. But at times one does get involved with a militia out of necessity.
    :D
     
    DaveC likes this.
  17. Aug 7, 2019 #17

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

    32 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    86
    Yeah... I'm about too old to do a convincing militia persona... I'll probably have to go to being a civilian swept along by events pretty soon myself.

    As it happens, I've finally gotten everything ready for a bang-up New Orleans Grey impression for the Siege of Bexar, but I'm not exactly a sturdy "mechanic" from the Big Easy... Maybe another year or two? I should probably shave too since I've got so much gray and white showing these days...

    As for the arms used in the Texas Revolution:

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/2/24/remembering-the-guns-of-the-alamo/

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/remember-the-long-rifle/

    https://www.refugiomilitia.com/.../Weapons_Guidelines_for_the_Refugio_Militia.doc

    As for August 1813 and the Battle of the Medina, I recently contrived my appearance to resemble the sort of raffish, free-booting "Neutral Territory" denizen who had it out for ol' Magee but joined the Republican Army of the North what with the promise of loot, ahem, good pay, land, and the prospect that liberating ol' Mexico from the perfidious race of the Gauchipines would indebt the sister republic to gift Texas to the United States... With myself already in the territory and acquiring land of course!

    As it happened, I think most people thought I was a leprechaun gotten lost from a St.-Patrick's Day shenanigan or pub crawl... Ah well. :p:oops:
     
    Einsiedler likes this.
  18. Aug 9, 2019 #18

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Wilbarger’s Trace
    Saw Birdwatcher mentioned above in an old post. He just got off a 2500 mile bicycle trip from his base of ops in San Antonio up to the Medicine line in Montana. He’s flying back.
    He was here at my place on the trace several months ago. We took in some of the old 1830’s Texas sights I know about here along the trace to Webber’s Prairie.
    He was also at the Goliad massacre event back in March. He’s doing good!
    As mentioned I try to stear clear of the military and political situations, but do have the opportunity to be swept up in them. I enjoy the “attempt” to follow the same hunting trails as the likes of Noah Smithwick and John Holland Jenkins as well as the other old locals here on the frontier. Still lots of hunting & fishing to do! :)
     
    DaveC likes this.
  19. Aug 13, 2019 #19

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    Einsiedler

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Wilbarger’s Trace
    When it cools off some think I’ll take a calcutta up and try to jerk some perch outta the Wilbarger. Ought to be some biggun’s in there.

    According to ol’ Wilbarger in his treatise on Indian Depredations one of the Rogers boys and an older confederate (his name escapes me now, but I believe his first name was Captain ). Well apparently they was fell upon by several of the local tribesmen when they were checking their "wolf" traps down on the Wilbarger. And were both scelped!!! Apparently this spot ( still unknown) is in all liklihood well within walking distance of my current domicile. As I do live on the old Roger’s 1831 grant maybe 2 miles as the crow flies ( 15 as the house flies ) from it’s mouth at the Colorado below Nash’s Ferry.
    Hence my interest in the area! I think many could broaden their historical experience by including some civilian activities in their hobby. Learning a skill or trade. Or simply napping on the creekbank watching your bobber After my past service experiences I’m a bit allergic to drill, following orders, and backpacks.
     
    davidmc62 likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white