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" Yes, TC flintlocks (that sold for less than $200) had serious issues, but one must ask what other company made rifles to satisfy the need for flintlocks in states that required them for deer hunting? "

I shot my first ML buck with a TC Hawken Flintlock in 1975. IT took three tries to get the gun to go bang. Good thing the buck was oblivious. I also re case hardened the frizzen twice. I used charred leather in a tuna can, over an oak fire. TC case hardened them, but real thin. It did not last if you actually shot the rifle. The cock was later changed by TC to work better and not just smash the flint.

I gave up on the original TC flintlock and converted the rifle to cap lock with a drum.

I think we agree about TC Hawken rifles. I tried to be tactful, really.

The 425 gr bullet referenced above will not likely stabilize in a 1:48 twist. About 1:18 would be good. The TC Maxi ball were about as heavy as you could go with original barrels. It is also likely undersized. That will result in gas gutting. A card was could be used to mitigate that but the boat tail makes it impossible. I'd suggest a TC Maxi Style bullet. Accurate Molds makes molds.
 

nkbj

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" Yes, TC flintlocks (that sold for less than $200) had serious issues, but one must ask what other company made rifles to satisfy the need for flintlocks in states that required them for deer hunting? "

I shot my first ML buck with a TC Hawken Flintlock in 1975. IT took three tries to get the gun to go bang. Good thing the buck was oblivious. I also re case hardened the frizzen twice. I used charred leather in a tuna can, over an oak fire. TC case hardened them, but real thin. It did not last if you actually shot the rifle. The cock was later changed by TC to work better and not just smash the flint.

I gave up on the original TC flintlock and converted the rifle to cap lock with a drum.

I think we agree about TC Hawken rifles. I tried to be tactful, really.

The 425 gr bullet referenced above will not likely stabilize in a 1:48 twist. About 1:18 would be good. The TC Maxi ball were about as heavy as you could go with original barrels. It is also likely undersized. That will result in gas gutting. A card was could be used to mitigate that but the boat tail makes it impossible. I'd suggest a TC Maxi Style bullet. Accurate Molds makes molds.
You betcha, how to avoid gas cutting with the long taper on the base of that NEI design is going to be the corker.
This New Englander has a .458 bore diameter, 24" twist and slightly rounded bottom wide grooves that form a nearly heptagonal cross section. Plain base bullets generally work best. Stepped bases are more difficult to avoid gas cutting but it can be done. This long taper... is going to be an adventure.
:)
 

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Rifleman1776

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Most folk can't handle it when others express their opinions strongly with conviction as you have here.

Two points I'd like to make.

In the early 1970s muzzleloaders saw an unprecedented rise in popularity because of the Bicentennial and a couple of now classic movies and TV shows.

TC had the vision to recognize an opportunity that no other US maker or manufacturer seized.

I contend that TC actually created a mass market that hadn't existed. Sure a few companies were flogging kits and subpar imports. But it was TC that fulfilled the demand (or did they create it) for Made in USA black powder rifles that were readily available, solid, worked, pleased the non-expert eye, and were easy to maintain. To top it off, TC rifles were backed by a warranty and customer service that to this day remains unsurpassed in the blackpowder shooting world.

To fairly evaluate TC sidelocks, I feel one should look at the company's impact and legacy.

TC introduced muzzleloading to more people in just a few years than at any time since smokeless powder and cartridge guns became the norm. I daresay the vast majority of members on this forum have fond memories of TC smokepoles. Thus, we are emotional about our TC sidelocks. From 1958 to 1965 I played with toy flintlocks like the one I saw Fess Parker carry on TV. In those tender years I roamed the woods of East Tennessee wearing a Davy Crocket coon hat, ever viligant for roving bands of bloodthirsty redskins (slaying them without mercy when discovered).

Imagine my awe just a few years later when I saw a TC Hawken in a gun store. I immediately spent the money meant for my meal plan at the University of Tennessee. Eventhough I was hungry all quarter, every weekend I was on the gun range at Norris, TN shooting ball after ball.

Finally, I agree with you that compared to other production sidelocks available from the early 1970s through the early 1990's, TC ruled.

Yes, TC flintlocks (that sold for less than $200) had serious issues, but one must ask what other company made rifles to satisfy the need for flintlocks in states that required them for deer hunting?

I would go so far as to say that if not for TC this forum might not exist.
Well said. Worth repeating.
 

Don H

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My first ML was a CVA .45 percussion bought from Dixie gun works for about $70 back in '73. Next was a TC Hawken flintlock kit in .50 followed by a custom flintlock by Brad Emig in PA. Finally a new in the box .50 percussion Hawken came to my home via gun broker. Of all these the TC's are the ones I shoot the most. Frankly the ease of removing the barrel for cleaning is probably why.
 

BrantWW

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My first ML was a CVA .45 percussion bought from Dixie gun works for about $70 back in '73. Next was a TC Hawken flintlock kit in .50 followed by a custom flintlock by Brad Emig in PA. Finally a new in the box .50 percussion Hawken came to my home via gun broker. Of all these the TC's are the ones I shoot the most. Frankly the ease of removing the barrel for cleaning is probably why.
Great about cleaning...

I fought to mention that the hooked breach was indeed or is the reason TC are enjoyed by so many.

Clean up is a breeze!
 

Griz44Mag

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It always find it amusing when someone who is ignorant mocks someone who is not. It tells me a lot about that person.
Making personal attacks against some one because you disagree with them is childish.
So you got called out on your rant - by MANY very well educated and vastly experienced gun owners here are laughing at you.
You got all uppity and started calling names - eluding to to anyone that disagrees with you is "ignorant".
What you have done is called being hypocritical.
What I see is not a person of authority or a person of extensive knowledge from personal experience.
If I really stated openly what I think of your childlike and snooty rant - it would likely be deleted by the mods.
 

MSW

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not saying that the T/C is a "fine" rifle - far from it... but it it is, at its core, a solid, serviceable and unpretentious rifle which, if properly maintained and tuned, will shoot with reasonable accuracy and do so with a reliability that's hard to beat..

if you want to impress people, this is probably not the gun for you.

if, instead, you want to have some fun, make some good smoke, and put lead on target, this rifle is worthy of our consideration.

ok - i'll climb down off my soap box before i fall and hurt myself
 

Stykbow

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not saying that the T/C is a "fine" rifle - far from it... but it it is, at its core, a solid, serviceable and unpretentious rifle which, if properly maintained and tuned, will shoot with reasonable accuracy and do so with a reliability that's hard to beat..

if you want to impress people, this is probably not the gun for you.

if, instead, you want to have some fun, make some good smoke, and put lead on target, this rifle is worthy of our consideration.

ok - i'll climb down off my soap box before i fall and hurt myself
I feel like this was extremely well put. Are they flashy “hot rods”? No, but they are a solidly performing, every man’s gun that just flat works. I can’t even imagine how much game has been downed by these workhorse rifles.
 

CTShooter

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I feel lucky as all get out, someone thought enough of me to take an old dusty box of parts called a kit and send it home with me.

I think I ended up with a pretty decent rifle, that so far works, fits me, taught me a ton, gave me the opportunity many times to see that “smile” the first time a kid (and usually dad) shoots a muzzleloader.
The name on that dusty old torn box really doesn’t matter when you get to cherish priceless moments like that.
 
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Is a TC well made, yes it is.
Does it do the job it was intended for, yes it does
So....
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish wether it suits your purpose or not.
If you are shooting targets like Mr Lewis at 500 yards it will beat my Jaeger everyday.
If you are into history and wanting to go to a juried historical event it will not work.
If you REALLY want to do things like our ancestors did before 1800 it will not work.
If you just want to kill deer, it or an inline will work just fine.
 

Eric Krewson

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Like stated before I swore off TC because of the hot melt glue lock inletting, this brought me back into the fold, a ancient TC Hawken kit that my dad had in his closet when he went to assisted living.
TC hawken start 003.JPG


This was pre warning kit at least 35 years old and pretty crude overall, it wasn't a bolt together and shoot kit and actually took some work to fit the parts into the stock properly. By properly I mean not just sitting on the surface but inletted to the proper depth. After I finished the gun I thought that a rank beginner would have struggled to complete the assembly.
 

hanshi

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I've only owned one and that was decades ago but you'll get no criticism from me as to their quality and usefulness. Some shooters dislike the fact they mostly had 1-48" twists, but that's because of a misunderstanding of what and why they are so rifled. A 1-48" twist is historically authentic and is not at all a "compromise". The only criticism I can see as somewhat legitimate is the fact of the very shallow rifling in most of the barrels. They generally do well with both prb and conicals, but shallow rifling often needs a much slower twist or, preferably, deeper grooves. It's still a fact these rifles often excel with prb, conicals or both. Shallow grooves & 1-48" twist just sometimes takes a bit more work finding a good load than some others might.
 

10acres

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To each their own. I have had nothing but good luck with my T/C Renegade 54cal. So much so, that I bought a very clean T/C Hawken in 45cal today on my way home from work. $225 out the door made me a happy camper.
 
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If!
I ever bought one it would have to be a flint. I would have to exchange the lock plate for any thing that did not have that cheesy fake engraving or whatever its supposed to be.....and that trigger guard would have to go as well.
put some primitive sights on it and it might work.
A flint renegade in .54 and a few upgrades... Hummm, wonder if I could find one on the cheap.
 
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