TC Renegade help

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Jayhawkdan

36 Cl.
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
56
Reaction score
21
Location
Northcentral Kansas
Hi Elk Stalker. I have a bunch (about 200) of .50 cal. R.E.A.L. 320 grain bullets I’d sell ya if yer interested. A feller made these for me for my .50 cal. T/C Hawken, but I no longer need them. About half of ‘em are lubed with 50:50 bee’s wax and lard. I think they’ll all fit in a small size USPS Priority Mail box for shipping. Let me know by PM if your interested.
JayhawkDan
 

LeonardC

32 Cal
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
47
Reaction score
28
Glad to hear you got your rifle to shoot. Sorry to hear about your gunsmith experience.

Pinehurst, ID. I haven't heard of that place for some time. I went to HS in Kellogg l.o.n.g. ago.
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
Glad to hear you got your rifle to shoot. Sorry to hear about your gunsmith experience.

Pinehurst, ID. I haven't heard of that place for some time. I went to HS in Kellogg l.o.n.g. ago.
That’s awesome! It’s a small world! My daughter graduated from Kellogg last year.
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
Hi Elk Stalker. I have a bunch (about 200) of .50 cal. R.E.A.L. 320 grain bullets I’d sell ya if yer interested. A feller made these for me for my .50 cal. T/C Hawken, but I no longer need them. About half of ‘em are lubed with 50:50 bee’s wax and lard. I think they’ll all fit in a small size USPS Priority Mail box for shipping. Let me know by PM if your interested.
JayhawkDan
Thank you! I will let you know. I have a few things to sort out and will hopefully be busy hunting here for a few weeks. I will get in touch with ya as we get into December, if that is ok with you. If you are in a hurry, just let me know. I would really like to try those. I had some conicals that I bought locally and I believe they were the REAL bullet. But they didn’t say what mold it was. Looked awfully close. Even with the banged up crown, those bullets were showing promise. I bet they would work really well now that the issue has been addressed.
 

SwanShot

36 Cal.
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
284
Reaction score
426
Location
Perth Western Australia
Thank you! I will let you know. I have a few things to sort out and will hopefully be busy hunting here for a few weeks. I will get in touch with ya as we get into December, if that is ok with you. If you are in a hurry, just let me know. I would really like to try those. I had some conicals that I bought locally and I believe they were the REAL bullet. But they didn’t say what mold it was. Looked awfully close. Even with the banged up crown, those bullets were showing promise. I bet they would work really well now that the issue has been addressed.
My Renagade .54 loves REALs. I was not impressed until I started using an over powder felt wad. then they just all came together. Good with light loads too.
 
Joined
May 10, 2022
Messages
83
Reaction score
49
Glad to read you got it grouping. Looks like once season is over and the grey sky’s and cold will not let up you have a project. It really sucks you have to do it twice, we will just have to blame that on careless craftless people. Good luck and don’t forget to post your fist deer and also once you get it back in tiptop shape!!!
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
158
Reaction score
101
I built this TC Tenegade 50cal from a kit. The reason I bought it was to shoot conicals for elk hunting. I have not been able to get this thing to group with any conical. I’ve tried Hornady GP 385, TC Maxi-balls, TC Maxi Hunters, Maxi Balls bought from October country, Lee R.E.A.L. Bullet sold locally for a while until the gentleman passed away last year. The REAL showed the most promise, but I can’t get them any more.
Today at the range I shot a group at 50yds using 80gr Goex FFg, leather over powder wad, and Hornady GP 385
This was my 50yrd group in the photo.
I did shoot round ball from it just to compare accuracy (first time in this rifle). I used a .490 cast ball, 70gr FFFg and an .018” patch lubed with TOW Mink. This was better at 3 inches and was tight, but I didn’t need a hammer to load it. I think that with some actual work up, patched round ball would do well in this rifle. Conicals, on the other hand, may be a lost cause. I’m getting frustrated because it isn’t doing what I need it to and really didn’t need another 50cal PRB rifle. Anybody have some suggestions for getting better accuracy with a conical? Unfortunately, elk season is upon me and I’ll be hunting again with my Lyman GPR 50cal (should have just bought a 54).

Looks like the recrowning was done right.

I started hunting with a kit-built Renegade in the late 1980's. Built it for rough use- epoxy bedded everything, Parkerized the metal, wood finish is polyurethane boat deck varnish. Relatively short rifle handles well in the pinon-juniper country of western Colorado.

I tried many different styles of bullet when the rifle was new. By far the best results are from a Lee Modern Minie bullet, cast in pure soft lead and lubricated with three coats of Lee Liquid Alox. Three shot groups of 4+ inches at 100 yards. Not sure I could do that now- eyes are a lot older.
 

Prairieofthedog

40 Cal.
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
541
Reaction score
100
That is a neat trick! I wish I had done this myself with the damage I am now going to have to address. I thought taking it to a “gunsmith” was the wise decision. I had not put a ding or a scratch in this rifle yet in the year that it’s been finished and I have been shooting it. I took it out to the shop to address the bare muzzle face and was pretty heated with what I found. The wedge pin was driven in from the wrong side and was stuck, the wedge carriage was driven completely off center to one side and ding up pretty bad, the barrel was under extreme cam pressure and popped like a spring when I got the wedge pin out, marks all up and down the barrel that broke through the browning to clean metal, dings in the stock, front sight buggered up, and he broke several screws and charged me to drill them out and replace. None of the damage in the photos existed until I brought the rifle to him. I’ve had every single screw removed and reinstalled on this rifle a dozen times and never once had an issue, or a scratch. I’m pretty upset and having to watch my tongue here. Shop lighting and iPhone make it look pretty dark, but it is actually a beautiful plum brown. I just hope the darn thing shoots straight at this point. So much for the pretty rifle I had so much pride in.
Anyway, I appreciate your advice and thorough explanation of that process. I will make note of it if I have to deal with this issue again in the future.
What a butcher job, my kid could have done that better! It is amazing that some people call themselves gunsmiths.If you are marring up screws and dinging every thing else up,you are not qualified to work on a pop-gun.
 

LeonardC

32 Cal
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
47
Reaction score
28
I have been unable to learn the factory sight on mine even after getting advise on here. I have a T/C factory peep sight for it. I talked to a local gunsmith/maker about drilling and tapping the one hole I need done so I can mount the sight. I guess when I drop it off I'll have a talk with him about not buggering up the rifle.

Trip down memery lane. Kellogg High School (when I went there) was built up in a watershed behind the hospital. There was a paved trail cut into the side of the hill/mountain that I walked to get there. The school itself was built over a creek. Part on one side and part on the other with a connecting walkway with class rooms on one side and lots of glass windows that overlooked the creek. It was a wonderful place to go to school!

They built another school closer to town; maybe middle or grade school?. It was a big concrete cube and didn't seem to have any windows. Progress.
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
429
Don't bounce your rammer. Mark your rammer so you'll know the ball is on powder. Bouncing does nothing good. Done hard enough, it'll crush powder and that causes inconsistent velocities and accuracy issues.
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
What a butcher job, my kid could have done that better! It is amazing that some people call themselves gunsmiths.If you are marring up screws and dinging every thing else up,you are not qualified to work on a pop-gun.
Yes Sir! I seriously regret trusting this individual. It sucks because he is a really good guy, just not a good smith. It’s been a real exercise on my part to extend grace. Also, lesson learned. I won’t be back there.
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
Don't bounce your rammer. Mark your rammer so you'll know the ball is on powder. Bouncing does nothing good. Done hard enough, it'll crush powder and that causes inconsistent velocities and accuracy issues.
One bounce seams to compress the load enough to significantly improve the groups. Considering your statement, would you say that I need to increase the powder charge to make up for not doing so? The one flyer I had was because I didn’t compress the load. The following 3 made one ragged hole. I could see where the balls struck the rubber Matt behind my target and they measured .65” center to center
 

Attachments

  • 20ACD7A7-3788-419F-9D13-444EE4A1E6E6.jpeg
    20ACD7A7-3788-419F-9D13-444EE4A1E6E6.jpeg
    1.5 MB · Views: 0

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
429
Compressing the load , with practice, can be very consistent. Bouncing a rammer isn't. You don't need to increase your charge.
I swab between shots, so I can feel when the projectile touches the powder. I give the rammer a little pressure and leave it at that. It doesn't deform the projectile or crush the powder/ pellet ( for those who use pellets).
Consistency is critical to good accuracy with any firearm. It's even more critical with muzzleloaders.
NICE group btw!
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
Compressing the load , with practice, can be very consistent. Bouncing a rammer isn't. You don't need to increase your charge.
I swab between shots, so I can feel when the projectile touches the powder. I give the rammer a little pressure and leave it at that. It doesn't deform the projectile or crush the powder/ pellet ( for those who use pellets).
Consistency is critical to good accuracy with any firearm. It's even more critical with muzzleloaders.
NICE group btw!
Thank you! I appreciate your help. On the next outing I will experiment. I shot a group of 3 where I just put as much pressure on the ball as I could with 2 thumbs, and also another group just seating the ball on the powder, no extra pressure. Both groups were around 3”. Then I used the same load seating again with thumb pressure as before and then raised the Rod about 3 inches and gave it a whack with the weight of my ramrod. It shrunk the group to the above photo. I can’t explain it, I just know it worked… for now. Maybe I just need to seat with more pressure without the bounce. I’ve only been serious about learning muzzleloading for a couple of years. I still have a lot to learn as far as what it takes to get really small groups that are consistent. Some guys are fine with a 2-3” group. But I’ve seen what some shooters can do and I really want to hone my skills to be where they are.(maybe in another 40 years). It certainly helps with my confidence and knowing where that ball/bullet is going to go when that venison walks out from behind the tree.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
5,271
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Western North Carolina
But this recipe produced the group in the photo. 3 touching with a flyer because I did not bounce the ramrod off the ball for the first pool
Personally, I haven’t found bouncing a ramrod to improve accuracy, but have only done limited testing and want to learn. Have a few questions about the technique.

1. Do the number of bounces matter? What do you find to be the optimum number of bounces?

2. Do you use the same number of bounces with a range rod rod as with a ramrod?

3. Do the number of bounces change with a steel rod compared to a wooden hickory rod?

4. Do you use the same bouncing technique for conicals and patched roundballs?
 

ElkStalker

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
248
Reaction score
382
Personally, I haven’t found bouncing a ramrod to improve accuracy, but have only done limited testing and want to learn. Have a few questions about the technique.

1. Do the number of bounces matter? What do you find to be the optimum number of bounces?

2. Do you use the same number of bounces with a range rod rod as with a ramrod?

3. Do the number of bounces change with a steel rod compared to a wooden hickory rod?

4. Do you use the same bouncing technique for conicals and patched roundballs?
I can’t answer those questions with any seriousness. My ramrod from my Renegade is lighter that my Hawken, which are both lighter than my Lyman. The lighter ones require more force than the heavy ones. Maybe an extra half a bounce. But in all seriousness, I was just trying something I had not tried before, and it helped. I’ve seen target shooters do it - there must be a reason and I think that reason is consistency with seating pressure, but I could be wrong. It’s also a pain if you’re reloading for a follow up shot on a buck and you have to count your bounce…. Did that one bounce or not? Throw in an extra bounce for good measure? Certainly this would begin to crush the powder kernels if done too much. I just know that sometimes the rod seats the ball farther and does not bounce and the 2nd bounce gives a return because it’s now solid…. This was the first time I tried this technique, if it is a technique. Maybe it was just stupid. It was consistent for 6 shots and then I had to pack it up.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
3,035
Reaction score
4,697
Consistent loading pressure is as important as any other part of firing a muzzleloader. If you are just bouncing a wooden ramrod one or twice I wouldn't worry about crushing powder.
I don’t believe bouncing the ramrod makes much difference one way or another. I believe you can put a lot more pressure on the ball just with steady pressure on the loading rod. The Kadooty was supposed to provide 40# of pressure consistently. No way you’re applying 40# of pressure by bouncing a rod unless it’s solid brass and you really wang the thing. I don’t see it.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
9,775
Reaction score
8,737
Location
St. Louis, MO
For consistent loading pressure, get a spring-loaded bathroom scale and a sturdy range rod. When loading, place the butt of the rifle on the scale and press the load in place until the scale reads 40 pounds. It won't take long until you get a feel for how pressure on the rod it takes to apply 40 pounds to the load, and you can leave the scale at home. I believe that within the 94 pages of Dutch Schoultz's "Black Powder Accuracy" system there were plans to build a spring-loaded working rod calibrated for 40 pounds. I use a working rod and know that the pressure I apply is in the 30 to 50 pound range. You don't really require exactly 40 pounds of pressure, just enough to slightly compress the powder charge as you seat the patched ball. You do want a loading jag that is contoured to the diameter of the ball. That will shape the sprue to the ball diameter and the pressure will not adversely affect the shape of the ball.
 

Latest posts

Top