TC Renegade hammer "hanging up"?

[07Kingpin]

TC Renegade in .50, bought used but in what seems to be very good condition.

Bore is bright and clean, no major dings or scratches in stock etc.

Took it to the range today and it was shooting great for about 10 rounds, then when I pulled the trigger just got a pop from the cap but no firing. Replaced the cap, same thing. Pulled the nipple and used the nipple cleaner to make sure it was clear and tried again- not even a pop this time, like the hammer didn't hit hard enough to set off the cap. 2 more caps, same thing. Used a knife tip to clean out the recess in the hammer, another no fire. 2-3 more caps same thing, cleaned the hammer recess a little more, finally fired- called it a day.

Thoughts?

 

[BullRunBear]

Never had this problem in 30-plus years of shooting a Renegade. Just guessing here but two possibilities came to mind. First, is the lock still seated correctly or did it loosen up with those first shots? That might make the hammer hit off square. Second, does the lock need cleaning and lube? Maybe some of the parts, like the spring, are hanging up. Wish I could offer more solid advice.

Jeff

 

[Eric Krewson]

I would try a different brand of caps and make sure they are #11s.

 

[bubba.50]

Take the lock off and tighten the two screws in the bridle plate.

 

[Erwan]

TC Renegade in .50, bought used but in what seems to be very good condition.

Bore is bright and clean, no major dings or scratches in stock etc.

Took it to the range today and it was shooting great for about 10 rounds, then when I pulled the trigger just got a pop from the cap but no firing. Replaced the cap, same thing. Pulled the nipple and used the nipple cleaner to make sure it was clear and tried again- not even a pop this time, like the hammer didn't hit hard enough to set off the cap. 2 more caps, same thing. Used a knife tip to clean out the recess in the hammer, another no fire. 2-3 more caps same thing, cleaned the hammer recess a little more, finally fired- called it a day.

Thoughts?

I've had this problem several times, sometimes the nipple is clogged with dirt and sometimes I didn't understand anything either, yet I always shoot with real powder and never with a substitute like Pyrodex or other...

I think substitutes are more sensitive to the lack of power of the caps than real black powder, I think they require more power and heat and as in a caps box there can be bad ones, that's enough. It was real BP?.

In 2020 the French government decided to put black powder substitutes on the market (it was strictly forbidden until now) and first the Pyrodex P and RS, I don't really trust these products compared to black powder...

I'll wait and see......

 

[Rudyard]

Are there any Governments any shooter can trust ? . I much doubt it Rudyard

 

[07Kingpin]

Great replies, thanks.

Again, rifle shot great at first, no ignition problems of any kind, so maybe not a lock issue?

Same caps were firing great at first?

 

[Ames]

I'd take the lock apart and give it a good clean, polish and lube.
If that doesn't do it focus on the cap/nipple end of things. You may have something silly like an aftermarket nipple with the threads too long making the area just under it sensitive to any fouling buildup. Or a nipple too tall, letting the hammer strike it off square.

 

[SDSmlf]

Just some guessing here based on your comments. If there is ‘no lock problem’ and the caps are popping, you either have something clogging the flash channel (nipple orifice or path through breech plug) or something is going on with your powder. So.....
- is the small orifice in the nipple open?
- you have a new to you used gun, did you clean the breech area of any carbon buildup and make sure there was no oil in it before your first shot? Oil, heat and blackpowder make tar.
- are you swabbing the bore between shots and possibly pushing crud down the bore into the breech area?
- what powder are you using? Black powder or a sub? Subs work, but can be more difficult to light up.

 

[07Kingpin]

Good points but again, rifle worked great for many shots before any issues so prob not a carryover problem?

 

[SDSmlf]

Good points but again, rifle worked great for many shots before any issues so prob not a carryover problem?

Not sure what a carryover problem is, but the potential issues I previously mentioned are ones that will jump up and bite you after you have fired a number of shots. Whatever is causing your main charge not to light up after a number of successful ignitions is not a new problem. Finding and correcting that problem is a process of elimination. Have you eliminated the potential issues I suggested considering?

 

[bang]

Kind of opposite but one rifle I have would not hold half cock. That is you could pull trigger and it released the hammer. My point is things can work at first then issues show up after or durring use. Luckily mine was simple half turn loosen lock mount screws. I reworked and bedded the lock static then installed screws.
Pop no fire has to be blockage in channel provided the nipple is clear. It happened to me at the range once. I removed the nipple and put as much powder under it I could force in. It cleared it. One heck of a hang fire. Figure I got lucky it did. Ever since I used hose on nipple and tight patch to force cleaning solution through the channel. Haven't had any issues since.
Hammer drop no pop could be bad primers, lack of or poor primer seating, deformity of nipple face, hammer drag, gummed up lock or failing hammer spring.
My Zouave is of those that are notorious for seemingly weak hammer drop. This shows up more using #11 primers. The fix is to seat them well then there is no problem. Haven't tried musket caps because they aren't readily store available here that I can find and I have poot load of 11s.
Since it worked at first then got pop then no pop I believed it is multiple issues. I would give it very through cleaning. Change nipple. Disassemble the lock as far as you are comfortable with and degrease and lube it. At same time check the main spring and check for any rubbing of movable parts against the surrounding material. When reassembling make sure to not over torque the mounting screws and also make sure there is no thread protrusion that would interfere with hammer travel. That can happen if the lock plate has been inletted a bit too deep. If all works well in that condition trim the screws so they are flush on the plate at used torque. If the plate is just too deep period then bed the inlay out.

 

[Tumbledown]

Do the caps fit too tightly on the nipple? Maybe they don't seat reliably.

 

[07Kingpin]

Will check out all suggested options- thanks!

 

[Mark Herman]

It doesn't sound like a lock problem to me. If the hammer is "occasionally" plopping the cap or popping it after numerous strikes out sounds like the nipple may be mushroomed and not letting the caps to seat. Try putting the nipple in a drill chuck and slowly dress the tip of the cone till a cap will seat all the way down. Or, just replace the nipple. If it's mushroomed the hammer is seating the cap on the first strike.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If the cap is firing, but the main charge is not firing, then there a blockage in the flash channel between the nipple and main charge. You have a T/C Renegade. It has a chambered breech. If you are wiping between shots, it is likely that you are pushing fouling into the breech. Since the fouling builds up as you shoot, the first shots are fine, but later you get a failure to fire. As has often been recommended in other failure to fire threads, a sub caliber brush such as a 22 brush or mop that cleans out the chambered breech followed by a pipe cleaner run from the nipple to the breech will often allow the fire to reach the main charge. Magnum caps will often help. But cleaning of all parts of the flash channel is the real solution.

 

[07Kingpin]

Grenadier- I think you are correct.

Replaced the nipple, first 5-6 shot's were great, no issues.

Then the hammer would drop, cap fire but no shot.

Tried multiple caps, eventually had to put powder in from the nipple side until charge eventually fired.

Hammer is dropping caps are firing but main charge isn't going off.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Read my post above. Read the post in the Gun Builders' Bench forum on "Son in law's poor ignition on Lyman Great Planes 50 cal percussion". This is the same problem. Both rifles have the Investarms style patent breech.

If all you did was change the nipple then you haven't addressed your failure to fire problem. There is a blockage between the nipple and the firing chamber. You may be allowing fouling to build up in the chamber in the patent breech especially if you are wiping between shots. Remove the nipple, pull the wedges, remove the barrel and soak the breech in a bucket of warm soapy water. Pump the barrel with a tight patch. Verify a great rush of water from the nipple seat. Use a pipe cleaner to clean any fouling from the channel from the nipple seat to the breech.

From what has been written in your post, fouling is building up in the chamber in the patent breech. That needs to be cleaned.

 

[Mad Professor]

Sounds like it needs a good cleaning.

Take your barrel and nipple off and pump it with some warm soapy water in a bucket using a ramrod/jag/patch. Then hit the patent breech with a small bronze brush and repeat the water flushing. Once it's clean and dry remove the screw on the snail and check that flash channel is clean. If the screw won't come out get some pipe cleaners and go in through the nipple hole.

Even if this is not the problem, you'll know the barrel is clean and won't cost a thing but some time.

Taking the lock off for a cleaning and lube would also be in order.

Check that your hammer hits square and is not off center.

 

[Okie Hog]

Hammer is dropping caps are firing but main charge isn't going off.

1. Clean the flash channel using a bristled pipe cleaner.

2. After loading the powder lean the gun lock side down and give the stock a couple slaps to allow powder to enter the flash channel.

3. Use magnum caps.