TC Pennsylvania Hunter giving FITS

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
290
Reaction score
124
Location
Washington state
Ei
Tried the .015s heavily lubed. Shot well YESTERDAY. All over the paper today...
Decided, what the heck? Tried heavily lubed .010s.
Patches shown heavy land fraying. One was blown. I could almost get them started by blowing on them.
At 50 yards, they CUT HOLES!?
Gentle folk, I present you...
The bumblebee...
The patches might be to thin or the rifling or crown is cutting the patch on the way down look down your bore and see what the rifling lands look like might need a polishing. I use .018 duck cloth saturated with #13 tc bore cleaner
 

Sidney Smith

54 Cal.
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
1,785
Reaction score
1,674
I say stop swabbing between each shot. There's absolutely no need to do this. This IMO is what is causing your problems.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
1,235
Reaction score
1,447
Tried the .015s heavily lubed. Shot well YESTERDAY. All over the paper today...
Decided, what the heck? Tried heavily lubed .010s.
Patches shown heavy land fraying. One was blown. I could almost get them started by blowing on them.
At 50 yards, they CUT HOLES!?
Gentle folk, I present you...
The bumblebee...
Dare I say "I told you so"? I'm really glad it worked out for you. Yes, really, I mean that.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
1,235
Reaction score
1,447
By the way, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY PATCHES shows burnt holes, completely blown patches, and just absolute raggedness. But they shoot well and print tight groups. I could and have put a lubed wad down before the patched ball, the patches look MUCH better after the shot but the group on target is statistically the same. So I just discarded the idea of a lubed wad under the patched ball. All that matters is good groups. And if bucking conventional wisdom by shooting a much looser patch/ball combo does it for you, then do what works.

I will add, if a tight .018/.020/.024" ticking patch and a tight for bore diameter ball is the ticket for YOU, then by all means keep doing it! But if conventional wisdom is not cutting the mustard, try .010" under nominal bore size ball + .010" (or MAYBE .015") patch with heavy charge. Might work. If not take up golf.
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
574
Reading some of the comments and I have to agree that you need to try 2F powder.
I have a dozen or so Thompson Center rifles that will shoot 3F powder great, but I have one that is all over the board with 3F. Went to 2F and it shoots great. Wish I knew why. But the main thing is it works.
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
427
I will agree to disagree about swabbing.
I did switch to 2f and it did seem to help.
The abused patches are unnerving though. I do have some .012 ticking...
And NorthFork, no problem with the " I told you so". After all, you actually did!
However! This rifle has the MOST disagreeable habit of shooting well, then the next time out, same components...
Fingers, toes etc crossed.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
290
Reaction score
124
Location
Washington state
I will agree to disagree about swabbing.
I did switch to 2f and it did seem to help.
The abused patches are unnerving though. I do have some .012 ticking...
And NorthFork, no problem with the " I told you so". After all, you actually did!
However! This rifle has the MOST disagreeable habit of shooting well, then the next time out, same components...
Fingers, toes etc crossed.
Go to your local fabric store and ask for 10oz duck cloth i usually get yellow if its available its easy to find after shooting. Wash and dry it 2-3 times so itll tighten up i cut mine 1 1/16" x1 1/16 "square. Its a bear to start i use a brass starter and a brass hammer to start mine if theure still getting destroyed it has to be your rifling or the crown of your barrel.Like ive previously stated ive been thru this a few times i hope this helps
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
427
Pennsylvania Hunters are curious rifles. Handle one for awhile and you won't want to put it down.
They were made from 1988 - 2001 and there were a number of changes made during that time. My 2 are 7k apart on serial numbers, but the younger, Bumblebee, has one of the tang bolts threaded into the trigger guard, and the trigger is a different, spring loaded design.
Other changes were the addition of recoil pads, carbines, full octagonal barrels and Q.L.A muzzles.
Of the T/C sidelocks I've owned, I have to say that they're the best fit/ finished. This is especially true of their vent placement and tang/ barrel fit.
Bumblebee also has a very nice piece of fiddleback walnut! I'm thinking of stripping off the factory glop, and going with a nice finish of b.l.o. to bring out the grain.
Expect interest when at the range or in the bushes. I get questions every time.They're not that common, even here in Pennsylvania!
I WILL get mine to shoot as fine rifleguns should!
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
427
Harleynut
Thanks for the input.
This rifle is a hunter, so very tight loads are a no go.
She shows very little signs of use, so the barrel probably needs to be broken in.
At this point, accuracy with tight loads is poor, even if patch condition is good. I've loaded and pulled ball and checked patch condition. Compressed, but no tears.
I should get some good bore paste and have at it even though I can see no bore issues.
I'll try the .01s again. Be just my luck they'll be all over the place.
But, juuust maybeee...
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
327
Reaction score
674
My PA Hunter seems to be a fairly early model. No safety information stamped on the barrel, has the early style cock and a half octogon barrel.

I only have a pic of the days entire haul from the auction I went to last week. I'm planning to get both out later today and give them a good once over and butter the barrels. I'll get more pics of the PA Hunter by itself for you....but I will start another thread in this section rather than clutter up yours.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
8,009
Reaction score
2,243
Location
Northern AZ
I am betting that it is your powder choice and maybe for a reason that will surprise you. I once was a Swiss 3F super user, until I found out it was causing me to have certain accuracy issues. Not because it would not work, but because when it did not work - it was hard to determine the problem. If your touch hole is 1/16" or possibly slightly larger and you are loading a tight combination ball/patch - you are forcing powder out through the touch hole when you load . Enough powder loss to cause a variation in accuracy.

I went to only using 2F in all my calibers and solved that problem. You can use 3F, but you are going to have to use a looser patch/ball combination. Try 55-60 grains of 2F and those rifles will shoot very well.
Another member (rilfleman?) stated he could not get results with swiss???
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
8,009
Reaction score
2,243
Location
Northern AZ
Thanks all.
Like I said in my o.p., I can shoot groups less than half the size of my Pa Hunter with my flintlock Renegade. I don't do my best work with flintlocks, but I'm trying. Good groups with one rifle, but not others, would seem to indicate a load issue.
Assuming no rifle issues. Both of my Pennsylvania Hunters are in excellent condition.
I had a rifle that shot great for years. Then groups opened up. YEARS and every thing tried. Nope. Shot all other guns well as usual. Then one day? It just started shooting again. NO Clue as others also could not get it to group? Don't give up
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
574
Pennsylvania Hunters are curious rifles. Handle one for awhile and you won't want to put it down.
They were made from 1988 - 2001 and there were a number of changes made during that time. My 2 are 7k apart on serial numbers, but the younger, Bumblebee, has one of the tang bolts threaded into the trigger guard, and the trigger is a different, spring loaded design.
Other changes were the addition of recoil pads, carbines, full octagonal barrels and Q.L.A muzzles.
Of the T/C sidelocks I've owned, I have to say that they're the best fit/ finished. This is especially true of their vent placement and tang/ barrel fit.
Bumblebee also has a very nice piece of fiddleback walnut! I'm thinking of stripping off the factory glop, and going with a nice finish of b.l.o. to bring out the grain.
Expect interest when at the range or in the bushes. I get questions every time.They're not that common, even here in Pennsylvania!
I WILL get mine to shoot as fine rifleguns should!
I've been watching for one for awhile, in your opinion what version is the preferred (octagon to round, full octagon...) ?
I know to stay away from the dreaded QLA feature.
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
427
Definitely the half rounds. Helps the balance and the full octagonals I've seen all had Q.L.A muzzles.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
290
Reaction score
124
Location
Washington state
Harleynut
Thanks for the input.
This rifle is a hunter, so very tight loads are a no go.
She shows very little signs of use, so the barrel probably needs to be broken in.
At this point, accuracy with tight loads is poor, even if patch condition is good. I've loaded and pulled ball and checked patch condition. Compressed, but no tears.
I should get some good bore paste and have at it even though I can see no bore issues.
I'll try the .01s again. Be just my luck they'll be all over the place.
But, juuust maybeee...
Good luck Sir i surely hope you figure it out !!
 

Muddly

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
289
Reaction score
427
Swiss powder. By far and away the best I've ever used. When my shot to shot velocity variations get above 10 fps ( actual, not calculated) I'm doing something wrong.
Tragic how inefficient black powder is...
In my other rifles, one in particular, inch or less 3 rounders at 100 yards are not uncommon.
I have one .50 caliber (with a 1-38 twist) that with 70 grains of 3f Swiss, a 400 grain homecast Lyman Plains conical, lubed with SPG and a .54 cal Ox Yoke wad, won't quite break the inch mark. REALLY close a number of times though.
But it did put 10 rounds in 2 1/2 " at 100. 1350 fps btw.
Going to 2f showed improvement. But from what I've read, this is not unusual in flintlocks above .45 caliber.
 

Latest posts

Top