T/C Hawken, with Round Ball Barrel

[OldNo7]

I've got a few questions about a nice used T/C Hawken with the "Round Ball" barrel...

A local shop is selling a used .50 cal Hawken with said barrel, but the price is easily $150 over what these are typically selling for... The seller won't drop any lower, as the Hawken is in very good shape, but he's also trying to say the Round Ball barrel commands a premium.

I'm telling him that (a) not all shooters will want round ball only (and give up on Maxi Balls) and (b) many/most new BP shooters won't choose a sidelock as it is.

Can anyone please comment on:

* Whether the T/C-marked "Round Ball only" barrel does command a premium?

* And is it generally worth it for the accuracy gain? (In any...)

* Any other thoughts about those barrels?

I've got a nice, light T/C Cherokee .45 that I've used for the last couple of years, but at times I feel it is a little "too light" -- and now I'm thinking the heavier Hawken will hold better offhand.

Thanks! :hatsoff:

Old No7

 

[roundball]

I accumulated / hunted several T/C Hawkens for 18 years...fist 8 years .45/.50/.54cal caplocks in T/C's 28" x 1:48" barrels, then their 32" x 1:66" round ball twist barrels. The next 8-10 years in Flintlocks with the same sets of different flint barrels.

Following a lot of discussion on this very subject here in the forum, I spent 3 consecutive weekends running side by side barrel tests...(standard vs. round ball)... .45cals on one weekend, .50's the next, .54's the next.
At 100yds benched, I could barely tell a difference...they all turned in groups that were in the 1&7/8" to 2&3/4" size.

That said, I personally liked the looks and the heft of the longer 1:66" round ball barrels on my Hawkens and eventually they were all I hunted as I went with PRBs exclusively...but it definitely wasn't because of some shocking, noteworthy difference in accuracy.

When they were still in production, you could order a new T/C Hawken, that normally came with the 28" x 1:48" barrel, and for a mere extra $10, specify the round ball barrel instead. But they are very hard to come across today having been out of production for years of course, so whether or not that barrel is worth $150 to you is really a decision you have to juggle...if you like it, and want it, then I'd go after it...we only go around once.

Just don't buy it on the assumption it's going to suddenly make the Hawken shoot like a laser compared to the regular 28" x 1:48" barrel. Very tight fitting PRB combos with an Oxyoke OP wool wad make the 28" x 1:48" barrels very accurate.

 

[azmntman]

My personal experience is the 1-66 barrels shoot notably tighter groups than the 1-48. Just my experience. For PRB I'd get the slower twist. Kinda depends on if yer that into a bit smaller groups? I would guess at 100yds I get about 2-3 inch tighter groups in my CVA's. Have one that last time out got 1.5" gropus at 90yds....it's 1-66

 

[cynthialee]

All I can speak to is the extra he wants for the barrel.
He is asking too much.
A Roundball barrel tends to cost about $50-75 more than a regular barrel at auction. So $150 is a little steep and capitalizing on the fact that it is the only one in his shop.

 

[huntsman247]

I'm curious to the asking price; if that's OK? If not, that's OK too.

 

[uncmrkhd]

Not wanting to hi-jack this but got a question
about roundball barrels. I got a 50 cal Investarms Half stock guess it would be called a hawkin knock off and its 1-48 twist with 28" barrel, also got a 45cal Kentucky,1-66 with 33" barrel. By my figuring the ball is going to turn 1/2 turn in the 66" and just a little more in the 48" so my question is whats with the "round ball" designation? I was told the 28" has a faster twist cause its got the shorter barrel. The 48" will also shoot sabots if I have a desire where as the 66" wont. sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place

 

[mooman76]

The 1-48 twist will shoot conicals and RBs if not pushed too hard but not really made for sabots which need even a tighter twist. Round balls don't need that much twist to shoot well. The fact that it is a 28" barrel doesn't really factor in to the twist rate. Also though the bigger the bore, the less twist that is needed to stabilize your round.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Forget the plastic ammo stuff, it's not necessary and we don't even talk about them. Either twist rate will handle patched ball, the slower to higher velocity with accuracy. The 1-48" is a compromise to the extent that it'll work with Maxi/Minies type bullets. For the most part, ball will knock down most anything in North America, if you do your part. You'll probably want to use some more power on the critters that bite back, but the two you have will take all the tasty ones!

 

[Toomuch51]

Yes the 1:66 barrel will command a premium with competition shooters as these matches require side lock and patched roundball ONLY. A fact also evidenced by compairing prices in T/C's own "Fox Ridge Outfiters" catalogue.

Toomuch
------------
Shoot Flint

 

[Toomuch51]

I was told the 28" has a faster twist cause its got the shorter barrel. The 48" will also shoot sabots if I have a desire where as the 66" wont. sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place

The length of the barrel has nothing to do with the rate of twist, but only with how fast the ball is spinning when it exits the barrel.

Toomuch
-----------
Shoot Flint

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes the 1:66 barrel will command a premium with competition shooters as these matches require side lock and patched roundball ONLY. A fact also evidenced by compairing prices in T/C's own "Fox Ridge Outfiters" catalogue.

Toomuch
------------
Shoot Flint

The sidelock requirement is not correct. You will find many oddities on the range.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If it is overpriced, it is overpriced. Barrel twist cannot change that. Remember he is trying to sell his item and 'puffing' a bit with the round ball statement.
A 1:48" twist works just fine and is as accurate as others with prb.

 

[stinkyfeet]

What does he want for the gun as a whole.

 

[OldNo7]

Thanks to all for the thoughts and comments above.

As for the pricing...

Kittery Trading Post (Kittery, Maine) has 3 used Hawken's in .50 cal, averaging $295 each, based on condition.

Oddly, KTP also has a .45 cal Hawken "kit gun" (quite obvious from the K serial number, lack of proper inletting at the rear of the trigger guard, and the finish). That one is $475 -- ouch! -- I had no idea that a .45 (especially a just-OK built kit gun) would have that much of a price premium over a big fifty.

Anyway...

The other shop wants over $425 for the Round Ball Hawken in .50 cal.

Still mulling it all over, but I may just stick with my smaller/lighter Cherokee .45 cal.

Old No7

 

[necchi]

425? :hmm:
I'd be mulling that around for awhile too,
Tempting,,,,
Hopefully someone else would buy it before I made up my mind.

 

[nwtradegun]

if its the whole gun and just not a barrel its a steal.

 

[Rifleman1776]

if its the whole gun and just not a barrel its a steal.

Prices on used TCs are all over the board. They pop up anywhere from $150.00 to $700.00.
Condition and how badly a potential buyer wants it are the final determinants in price.

 

[stinkyfeet]

I agree if its in good condition that's not a bad price these days for a TC Hawkens especially with a round ball 1-66 barrel. The reason the 45 cal is worth more money was they made tons of 50-54 calibers and less 45's.

 

[galamb]

Without actually seeing the rifle and knowing what a similar one may sell for in your area I will put a different twist on your question.

If you wanted to get a round ball barrel for your Cherokee it would run you about 400 bucks to have someone make up a "drop in".

For roughly the same money you are looking at a whole other rifle in a different caliber which may or may not expand your applications.

(should have added - with a roundball 50 barrel you can shoot a 220 grain Hornady PA conical or a Buffalo Ball-ett to give you a bit extra "thump" compared to a roundball)

 

[Toomuch51]

Yes the 1:66 barrel will command a premium with competition shooters as these matches require side lock and patched roundball ONLY. A fact also evidenced by compairing prices in T/C's own "Fox Ridge Outfiters" catalogue.

Toomuch
------------
Shoot Flint

The sidelock requirement is not correct. You will find many oddities on the range.