• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Symmetry - A gun building question

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

roundball

Cannon
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
22,964
Reaction score
90
I'm not a gun builder, but am someone who looks for balance and symmetry wherever it seems like it should exist in something and therefore I have a gun builder's question.

I've noticed on custom built muzzleloaders that there is of course the lock inset on one side into the mortice of the raised prominant area made for it.

And on the opposite side, there is usually a matching mirror image of that raised prominent area as well.

On the face of this matching off side area is usually some sort of metal plate in which / through which the lock screws are anchored.

My question is, given the usual, symmetrical matching sides of the stock, why wouldn't a builder fashion the off side plate in the same size & shape of the lock plate to achieve a balanced, symmetrical look to that whole area of the rifle?
 
I am by no means an expert, but I have to say back in early times the smaller size of the sideplates had to do with not wasting a large amount of material when it wasn't necessary
 
I would have to agree with both of the[url] above.In[/url] the early day all metal was hard to come by,so little was wasted.And to gain the proper weight balance more or less sideplate would be used.No doubt there are other factors involved. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Gordy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just a guess but except for military arms most early guns were owned by the elite noblemen who liked fancy things.
I feel the lockplate area was used on these early guns as a place for the gunsmith(s) to add the art and decorations that the noblemen liked as well as a place for the gunsmith to show off their talent.

The asymmetric condition of the lock side verses the lockplate side lived on even through the Baroque era (symmetric things in all forms was desired and prevailed in the arts). Of course the Roccoco era in the mid 1700's (non symmetric flowing lines and swirls are typical) was a move away from symmetry in itself so the difference between the lock side and the lockplate side grew even less important.

Because of the amount of wood removed on the lock side, this area of the rifle stock is rather weak. To reinforce it the lockplate was used. Up to the days of the late precussion era the lockplate was almost always morticed into the stock to give this extra strength to the wood.

Taking the structural need of the stock and adding the Artistic traditions from the past results in the lack of symmetry you have seen.
 
Besides the strength of the wood being reduced in the lock plate area to accompany the inner workings of the lock and trigger mechanisms, the lack of symmetry could have to do with the fact that wood is easier to work with than metal...

This holds truer with military muzzleloaders than with the firearms destin for the noblemen, whereas fancy brass inlays are in less favor than mass production...

It was better to have produced 5 plain muskets per week than 1 fancy one... (just guessing on the M.P.W. numbers in the example)
 
Back
Top