Swivel gun recoil--need help

Discussion in 'Cannon' started by greytop13, Jun 16, 2015.

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  1. Jun 16, 2015 #1

    greytop13

    greytop13

    greytop13

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    Having an issue with my 1.5" swivel and keeping it upright. I fire a 1# lead ball over 500 grains and hold on to the tiller when she fires. However the recoil causes it to topple sometimes. I've tried staking the front leg and weighting it with sand bags but it's still a chore to keep it upright. Any ideas appreciated.
    Not sure how to download picture but you can see it here: http://theouroboros.net/photo-gallery-2/img_4504.html
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  2. Jun 16, 2015 #2

    greytop13

    greytop13

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    I should add that it's on a 6x6 post. I am thinking about adding a couple of iron rings to the post and running rope to tent stakes out in front.
     
  3. Jun 16, 2015 #3

    Alden

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    For every action there's an opposite and equal re-action.
     
  4. Jun 16, 2015 #4

    pargent

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    To counter the recoil you have 2 options , set your 6x6 into about 5 ton of rock shaped like a wall or an oak half pipe on a water dampening device . :thumbsup:
     
  5. Jun 16, 2015 #5

    nit wit

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    a stout rope might work or maybe angle the 6x6 forward some?
    Nit Wit
     
  6. Jun 16, 2015 #6

    kaintuck

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    Center of gravity is way high....that heavy post adds to it....once the recoil starts moving, it become very top heavy.....in other words, make your base x3 weight of your load~ :grin:
    Marc n tomtom
     
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  7. Jun 16, 2015 #7

    greytop13

    greytop13

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    Thank you Kaintuck and Nitwit. I've been looking at pics of deck guns with breech ropes and notice that they leave slack in the ropes. Anyone know if this was the practice during firing or were the ropes drawn up tight. If slack was left in them, was it to allow some of the recoil energy to dissipate before restraining the gun? Just trying to understand the dynamics of recoil.
     
  8. Jun 16, 2015 #8

    Poor Private

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    My swivel gun setup is alot like yours. My 1" swivel has a 4x4 as the upright I think it is 43" tall. But my feet are 3 feet in length. How do you fire it? as a X or as a cross- meaning that the tiller is laying Between the back cross pieces or is it inline with the front and back(like the picture). I fire a 1 ounce load out of mine and it has a bit of recoil but holding the tiller helps steady it. And I fire mine with a slap hammer instead of a fuse or friction primer.
    I have fired mine out of a door of a steam train in the combo car, and off of the rear platform of a passenger car, the kick is not anything I can't handle,
     
  9. Jun 16, 2015 #9

    greytop13

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    Top of the post is 34" from the ground. Feet are 41" inches with the post centered at 20.5". I fire it as shown with the barrel directly over the foot with the sand bag. It seemed that firing over the cross would cause it to rock back even more. Maybe I need to make my feet longer?
     
  10. Jun 16, 2015 #10

    Zonie

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    A 1 inch diameter ball has a volume of 0.523 cubic inches.
    If the ball is made out of steel it will weigh about 0.149 pounds or 1,046 grains.

    A 1 1/2" diameter ball has a volume of 1.767 cubic inches.
    If the ball is made out of steel it will weigh about .504 pounds or 3,525 grains.

    If each size ball is fired at the same velocity, the 1 1/2 inch cannon will have 3.37 times more energy than the 1 inch ball.

    As Alden mentions, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction so, graytops gun will recoil about 3 times more than your 1 inch gun.
     
  11. Jun 17, 2015 #11

    Poor Private

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    I realize that Zonie, about the size of ball and weight will effect recoil, also note that all projectiles are not balls. If you read some of the discushions some people fire golf balls, cans of food,lead balls, steel balls and even tennis balls- so weight and dimension an material also has an effect.
    I asked what size his feet were and at what position he placed them, because they will have an effect on how much movement his cannon has, too small an it will rock more, and if he has his hands on his tiller or not will effect it also. There are more variables than just the size of the charge and size of the projectile to the recoil.
     
  12. Jun 17, 2015 #12

    pargent

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    The rope controlled recoil and allowed the recoil to push the gun back into position for reloading the gun was then pulled back into firing position .
     
  13. Jun 17, 2015 #13

    robinghewitt

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    Strangely enough, energy does not come in to it.

    Newton tells us that mass times velocity is the same. That is not speed or power, it's just something that has to be the same in both directions. It doesn't even have a name.

    Calculate how much heavier the gun is than the ball. Just about everything the gun does will happen in that proportion when you shoot it. It is deliciously simple :thumbsup:
     
  14. Jun 17, 2015 #14

    kaintuck

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    :shocked2:
    Zonie, NO WONDER my cannon, OL Paris, shooting 3oz under a 2" ball was penetrating hardwood trees at 100yds.....
    :surrender:
    She sure was fun.......I just couldn't afford to feed her all the powder she could eat, and to big for the front room to display!
    :idunno:
    Marc n tomtom
     
  15. Jun 18, 2015 #15

    Alden

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    What Brave Sir Robin is saying is to wrap yourself around the tube and hold on very tightly, effectively significantly increasing its weight, on an as-needed basis, relative to the ball when you fire it.

    I wouldn't do it, but he's right, it will decrease the recoil.
     
  16. Jun 18, 2015 #16

    robinghewitt

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    That would be brave :rotf:

    If you want power without recoil shoot fast and light.

    Double the shot weight is twice the recoil and twice the power.

    Double the speed is twice the recoil and four times the power.

    The draw back is that double the speed is also 16 times the wind resistance so wait until you see the whites of their eyes.
     
  17. Jun 30, 2015 #17

    greytop13

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    Thank you all for your input. I was just looking for a practical way to keep the stand as it is and fire the same load. I guess my options are to put the gun on a carriage or to lighten the charge considerably (which will take me out of our club's cannon competition).
     
  18. Jul 9, 2015 #18

    colmoultrie

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    Make your back leg longer to distribute recoil and add stability. You can even hinge it, as long as you put the hinge the right way, so it folds infer the base for transport.
     
  19. Jul 23, 2015 #19

    cw1873

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    A leg from the high on the stand going rearward into the ground will help out. The longer the better. When the gun recoils, it will drive the leg into the ground a bit and the gun will want to go up. Your sandbags will be more effective because your pivot point is farther away.
     
  20. Jul 23, 2015 #20

    cw1873

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    Squire, it does have a name, impulse. Good reading for insomniacs and rocket scientists.
     

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