Stuck ball in Hawkin Rifle

[bobboss]

I now have a .54 cal T/C percussion Hawken that I won in an auction on GunBroker earlier this spring. I was actually looking for an 1805 Harper’s Ferry pistol when I first saw it. My $280 bid was bumped to $300 and surprise - I won (or lost- depends how we look at it – keep reading).

I now have a muzzleloader in my garage with a stuck ball and 90 grains of GoEx FF sitting behind it. Yes – I did clean the gun before taking it to the range. My original cleaning included boiling water down the pipe and watching it squirt out of the nipple hole. This was followed by numerous patches to swab it dry. The black powder guru at my club swears by Mystery Oil so I followed his procedure. Remove the nipple and replace with ¼ x28 panhead screw to close the exit, fill with oil, stand it in the corner and go away. A few days later I dump the oil and swab it dry with patch after patch. Let it dry further for a day or two and then go to the range and shoot it.

Once at the range, the CCI #11 caps would not work with the original nipple so I replaced with a brand new one. Cracked off 2 or 3 caps and then dumped 90 grains of GoEx down the barrel and got a good bang. Swabbed the barrel and loaded her up with patched 0.530 lead ball. First trigger pull, I heard the cap, but no powder discharge. New cap - Second squeeze – BANG - all is well. I then send a cleaning patch down the barrel and discover that the barrel is incredibly fouled from just one shot. In fact the rod becomes stuck and I need to recruit another set of hands to assist. Load it up again and same routine. This time I go through several caps without a discharge before a good BANG.

It’s the 3rd ball that is still in there now. I have tried compressed air and a military style ball puller. Nothing wants to work. I poured ½ bottle of Ballistol down the barrel to let it soak. What’s next? I am considering a 36” x 3/8 drill bit to grind the lead to bits, but there is powder behind that ball. Is this a really bad idea? Should I just park this barrel in the corner and forget about it? And - What’s with the misfires? Is this not uncommon?

I have an India made flintlock Brown Bess that is fired frequently. There have been misfires, but usually it is because there was no spark and the flint is to blame. I expect a percussion lock gun to fire if the cap cracks off.

Help me out here!

 

[nchawkeye]

Before you poured the Ballistol down the bore, I would have suggested unscrewing the nipple, adding a little powder and shooting the ball out...Then I would have asked if it had a clean out screw and was the channel clear? Now, with the powder soaked, you need a good strong cleaning rod and a ball puller...The last time I pulled a ball with my wooden loading rod I decided to order a good metal one from the Track of the Wolf...

It sounds like you are not getting powder into the drum where the flames from the cap can ignite the charge...I'd take a drill bit and open it up just a touch...If you can pull the breech plug you could also chamfer the inside of that hole a bit as well...

 

[Tom A Hawk]

A couple of questions. How far down the barrel is the ball stuck? And, what exactly is a "military" style ball puller?

 

[bubba.50]

Go to the auto parts store, get a 1/4 inch grease zerk, screw finger tight only in nipple threads then pump the ball out with a grease gun. And when ya get everything else straightened out throw that damn mystery oil in the trassh.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

you need a good strong cleaning rod and a ball puller...The last time I pulled a ball with my wooden loading rod I decided to order a good metal one from the Track of the Wolf....

Yea that is the fix, I'd go with. Order a range rod and a new ball puller, if you don't have both. The thing I did wrong was I failed to drop the Puller/rod down on the ball so I had a big fight getting it to start threading into the ball. Let the whole thing Drop into the barrel and THUNK a divot into the ball that you can screw into. It works slick once you get the idea down.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Go to the auto parts store, get a 1/4 inch grease zerk, screw finger tight only in nipple threads then pump the ball out with a grease gun. And when ya get everything else straightened out throw that damn mystery oil in the trassh.

FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!!!
Walk

 

[Patrick Thomas]

Yea that is the fix, I'd go with. Order a range rod and a new ball puller, if you don't have both. The thing I did wrong was I failed to drop the Puller/rod down on the ball so I had a big fight getting it to start threading into the ball. Let the whole thing Drop into the barrel and THUNK a divot into the ball that you can screw into. It works slick once you get the idea down.[/QUOT

Then it’s gonna take two people. One to hold the rifle, one to pull the ball.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Yep. or with the barrel out of the stock and in a padded vice.

 

[Grenadier1758]

1. Don't use a dry cleaning patch to wipe a fouled bore. Most of our jags are too large for the dry patch to do other than bunch up on the fouling and get stuck in the bore. Use a damp patch. the dampness will soften the fouling and will tend to allow the damp patch to ride over the fouling and when the patch bunches up, the fouling will be pulled from the barrel.

2. Be aware that if you had attempted to dribble a few grains of powder under the nipple, the ball needs to be reset at the breech to prevent a gap between powder and ball and have a high pressure spike at the ball/obstruction that will bulge or burst the barrel.

3. If a high pressure CO2 ball discharger can't be found to blow the ball out, then the grease fitting method is a good choice. Better to have the mess of all that grease than risking the destruction of a barrel.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Get that oil and squirt down the experts ear hole and see how marvelous he thinks it is then! Boiling water and a veg/animal oil grease. Failing that use NOTHING!
The cap turns even the slightest trace of oil into a mist that instantly stops ignition. Any trace of mineral oil in the barrel turns the fouling to a sticky tar.
Natural oils or water as in spit softens the fouling.
Watch out for experts, they are very dangerous.
Time to dig out that grease gun I bets.
I hope you succeed. We all have to learn the hard way.

 

[Stantheman86]

It seems like something petroleum based got in that bore, and also maybe a "tight spot" .

I currently have a Zoli .58 Buffalo Hunter with a Minie stuck halfway down the pipe, right below the rear sight. I'm guessing I'm the first person to load a bullet into this (a patched ball may have had enough "give") and when the assembler dovetailed the rear sight they put a tight spot under it, creating a "bullet trap "

 

[Britsmoothy]

It seems like something petroleum based got in that bore, and also maybe a "tight spot" .

I currently have a Zoli .58 Buffalo Hunter with a Minie stuck halfway down the pipe, right below the rear sight. I'm guessing I'm the first person to load a bullet into this (a patched ball may have had enough "give") and when the assembler dovetailed the rear sight they put a tight spot under it, creating a "bullet trap "

Nice carbine.

 

[bobboss]

Military Ball Puller from Track and catalog image of Hawken breech plug (also from Track of the Wolf)

No clean out screw that I know of

 

[bobboss]

I'm using a 36" Creedmore cleaning rod and did have the ball puller firmly seated at one point. After several days (literally) of tugging without success I unscrewed it and tried various concoctions down the barrel to soften things up. Now I can't get the puller reseated. I've managed to create a nice hole in the ball and that is why I'm now thinking maybe I can just continue and try to drill through it and simply dump out the bits that remain.
From the experience I have described - should I consider this barrel trash, or is there hope?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Those military style pullers look nice but they will expand the ball as they are turned into the bullet making a stuck bullet even more stuck. You need a puller with straight sides on the threaded body of the puller. Below is a link to Muzzle Loader Builder's Supply bullet puller.
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9925210.39591&p_id=18000&xm=on

I had a puller kit that had one side with a drill to make a hole for the puller that minimized the expansion of the bullet.

Its also worthwhile to have one of the CO2 ball dischargers.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yes there is hope for the barrel. Don't give up.
Or put differently....it's trashed, send the whole rifle to me and I will discreetly dispose of it for you free of charge sans postage

 

[Mark Herman]

The only thing wrong with the 2 bullet pullers that are shown is that neither have a centering collar. Without the collar the screw tip can go into the ball off center and make it almost impossible to pull the ball. Collared pullers are available from Cain's, Log Cabin, Track of the Wolf an others. The second one shown is nothing more than a common cabinet screw.
Mark

 

[Grenadier1758]

I provided the link to a generic bullet puller. MBS also offers the collared pullers in either 8-32 or 10-32 threads.
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9925210.39591&p_id=17950&xm=on

I didn't like the TotW pullers with collars since they have the tapered shank on the threaded portion which will expand the ball making pulling an even more difficult exercise.

 

[Stantheman86]

Dump some Hoppes Bench Rest lead remover down onto the ball and wait......it may dissolve enough of the ball to make it smaller and just pop out.
Or, to make it possible to push down to the breech....dribble 10 grains of 2-3f into the bolster, seat the nipple and bloop it and the contaminated powder out.

This was the solution given to me by a gunsmith for my Buffalo Hunter.

 

[oldwood]

I provided the link to a generic bullet puller. MBS also offers the collared pullers in either 8-32 or 10-32 threads.
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9925210.39591&p_id=17950&xm=on

I didn't like the TotW pullers with collars since they have the tapered shank on the threaded portion which will expand the ball making pulling an even more difficult exercise.

One indispensable tool to make to screw onto your ramrod , is an 8/32 or 10/32 , whatever fits , bronze cleaning brush wrapped w/ a wisp of 0000 or 00 steel wool. When pulling a dry balled load it's important to clean , and polish the fouled bore a little before attempting a removal.Dampen the wool/wire brush combo w/ water and each time the brush is withdrawn , rinse it w/ water to remove the powder fouling debris. Follow this w/cleaning patch dampened w/ bore cleaner. ( Cheap "old time " , effective bore cleaner can be made from 50/50 mix Pine Sol cleaner , and water. ) Plain water w/ a tight cloth cleaning patch can stick down in the bore , that's why small amt. bore cleaner is good to use.
Been doing muzzleloading for 50 years , and none of this stuff is rocket science. Use common sense , talk to someone who has been there and be safe. And again , occasionally polishing the bore w/ bronze brush and steel wool , never hurt a m/l barrel yet w/ this proceedure.
The pink patch grease is good to lube your patches , and prevent rust.