Steel Shot Question

[Micah Clark]

I know that a plastic wad allows for steel shot, from what I read from Zonie's post.

However, it seems to me . . . .and I may be wrong as I am just learning and building my first smoothbore now . . .that there is an option that can be shot through a smoothbore just like lead. . . I think it is tungsten . . is that correct or incorrect? Or is it bismuth that can be shot just like lead w/o harming our barrels ? Or is it none of the above? Do they all need a plastic wad? Just wondering what I need to buy if I want to try to hunt ducks with a smoothbore fowler.

Thanks

 

[19 16 6]

It really comes down to the choke.
What choke will this smooth bore fowler have ?
Plastic wads melt plastic to the bore when shot with black powder.
You can make paper shot cups & depending on how you cut the sides, control patterns a bit.
O.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I made shotcups out of the cardboard that separates the layers of cans in a 30 pack of beer....It is similar to tag board....It wasn't strong enough...the pellets penetrated the cardboard...
I was using copper plated BB sized shot.

Shooters Choice bore solvent will remove plastic wad fouling...

 

[Micah Clark]

It really comes down to the choke.
What choke will this smooth bore fowler have ?
Plastic wads melt plastic to the bore when shot with black powder.
You can make paper shot cups & depending on how you cut the sides, control patterns a bit.
O.

It's a Chambers PA Fowler with a Rice Oct to Round .62/ 20 g . . . open. . . no choke.

 

[azmntman]

Play with yerloads and forget the cups. Use paper or cloth cups. Try loading components backwards (powder, over shot card, shot over powder card. Works well for me and others.

Buy some decoys and learn to be still as a rock, I killed many ducks thata ways :thumbsup:

 

[19 16 6]

No choke is good for steel. The problems come from shot trying to scrunch together to get through a choke restriction. Steel does not do that so well & causes a pressure spike upon meeting the choke restriction.
This does not happen when there is no choke as with your gun.
I would, however, like to use some form of shot cup to protect the bore from scouring or being scratched by the steel shot.
O.

 

[BrownBear]

I gave steel a serious go through CYL bores with a variety of plastic wads. Patterns were surprisingly good, mostly I suspect due to the lack of deformation. I didn't really feel a choke was needed at the ranges I was shooting ducks (30-35 yards). The stiff plastic shot cup did a good job of keeping the pattern tighter than expected.

Plastic fouling was a serious issue until I put a lubed wad between the powder and plastic wad. Then no prob.

In my experience though, there is more of a problem killing with steel in a muzzleloader than a modern shotgun. That's because velocities are extremely limited with black powder, and steel needs lots of velocity (1500fps minimum) to kill out to normal ranges in my direct experience. I didn't chrono my BP loads, but manuals lead me to believe I wasn't doing any more than 1200fps. The trade-off was to use much larger steel shot than usual, but that cuts deeply into pattern density at hunting distances.

I moved on to ITX and haven't looked back.

 

[Micah Clark]

I gave steel a serious go through CYL bores with a variety of plastic wads. Patterns were surprisingly good, mostly I suspect due to the lack of deformation. I didn't really feel a choke was needed at the ranges I was shooting ducks (30-35 yards). The stiff plastic shot cup did a good job of keeping the pattern tighter than expected.

Plastic fouling was a serious issue until I put a lubed wad between the powder and plastic wad. Then no prob.

In my experience though, there is more of a problem killing with steel in a muzzleloader than a modern shotgun. That's because velocities are extremely limited with black powder, and steel needs lots of velocity (1500fps minimum) to kill out to normal ranges in my direct experience. I didn't chrono my BP loads, but manuals lead me to believe I wasn't doing any more than 1200fps. The trade-off was to use much larger steel shot than usual, but that cuts deeply into pattern density at hunting distances.

I moved on to ITX and haven't looked back.

That's some good thoughts . . What is ITX ?

I researched steel shot velocities a lot last season w modern firearms because I was trying to get the most out of my son's youth shotgun for geese with a 20 and went with Kent to get 1500 fps. . . He did get a goose, but it was difficult. . . . not much of a concern for ducks, I actually like my 20 more than my 12 for ducks.

I had not thought of the velocity issue for black powder pushing steel . . larger shot is a good thought . . I wouldn't try my BP fowler on Geese but where I hunt ducks the distances are pretty close.

It sounds like a over-powder card, a lubed wad and then a plastic shot cup with regular steel would work w/o hurting my barrel ??

 

[THBailey]

"that there is an option that can be shot through a smoothbore just like lead. ."

Yes, but they cost a whole lot more than lead.

Bismuth shot can be used like lead, but it is a bit lighter than lead. ITX 10 is a tungston matrix that is almost as heavy as lead and ITX 13 is actually heavier than lead. The seller (Ballistic Products} says 10 can be used like lead but 13 requires barrel protection.

I bought a 1 pound sample pack of the ITX 10 #6 shot and am attempting to use it for the first time this turkey season, but have yet to pop a cap with it.

 

[Micah Clark]

Thank you I'll check that out. 1 pound of the right size of that ITX for ducks would last me a very long time.

 

[rushlake1]

Thank you I'll check that out. 1 pound of the right size of that ITX for ducks would last me a very long time.

........................

1 vote for Hevi-shot using black powder for waterfowl...

Kills dead-dead less cripples..

 

[Micah Clark]

Well ITX sounds really good, but it's expensive with a capital E !!

May look at hevi-shot too.

Thanks,

 

[rushlake1]

Pay the price or sit on the couch..Your choice...

Nontoxic is not going away!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Steel ..., causes a pressure spike upon meeting the choke restriction.
This does not happen when there is no choke as with your gun.

While that is true, the major complaint when steel was first introduce was that it would score the interior of an older steel barrel. More recently manufactured shotgun barrels, and their screw in chokes in some brands, are now harder steel so are not harmed.

So when you fire the steel shot, for a split second, inertia causes the pressure to spike where the shot sits. The shot is "at rest" and objects at rest tend to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force, and inertia is overcome. So the shot column is compressed, and the steel pellets are forced outward against the interior wall of the barrel..., and then start moving toward the muzzle. The steel shot then can marr the interior of the barrel if the barrel steel is soft enough, AND muzzleloader steel is much softer than the steel used for modern shotguns shells using smokeless powder. I have recovered plastic shot cups from steel shot shells, and the plastic is partially perforated where the steel shot was pressed against the shot cup. Was that a result of passing the choke, or was that also from the firing point..., I can't say.

Bismuth shot was developed to better replicate lead shot, shotgun shells, so it was softer than steel and would not harm the older barrels on some vintage, breech loader shotguns, AND was heavy enough to retain velocity more similar to lead than steel is to lead. With those two factors, I'd shoot Bismuth as a shot substitute instead of tungsten, or at least I'd pattern BOTH and see which works best in my gun.

Bismuth, is btw, less expensive....

LD

 

[Micah Clark]

No couch here, but $30 + a pound is a lot of moola . . . good comments on Bismuth

thanks

 

[rushlake1]

Take a seat...Or use a modern.... .................................................I remember when Hevi-shot was 48 per pound...Long long time ago...

Non-toxic is not for the timid of the bill fold.

Less volume and expense.....Try this..
Sounds like you'd be better off buying a box of nontoxic..cutting them open and robbing the shot.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sounds like you'd be better off buying a box of nontoxic..cutting them open and robbing the shot.

It isn't going to cost you more than using a modern shotgun, right?

LD

 

[Micah Clark]

Honestly, when you think about shipping . . because I'd probably have to buy steel shot online . . . I did actually think about buying modern steel shot shells, bismuth or other, and cutting them open.

I actually worked at Cabela's for a while and got a screaming deal on a case of 12 gauge #3's steel federal waterfowl shells . . .perhaps all I need are plastic shot cups and lubed wads.

 

[Flintlock58]

I have used Bismuth or ITX 10 in a colerain turkey barrel and in a jug choked 11 ga for several years. It kills turkeys, ducks and geese. Expensive...yes but very effective out of a blackpowder gun. Ive used shredded felt wads and paper for shot cups too, mostly in the 11 ga.

 

[rushlake1]

Go Here I use the heavy metal wads and they work great in my flinter with nontoxic..
http://www.ballisticproducts.com

my wad columns. I shoot cylinder bore and slit the wads to choke my pattern.These work!

if you must use steel... load them fast and light and keep it within 30 yards for less cripples.