Steel Ramrod Repair

[FlinterNick]

Curious to see if anyone has ever repaired a broken steel ramrod. I have a Charleville button rod that I'm fond of, wanted to save the tip about 5 inches down and replace the rod.

Weld rod repair, or brazing repair ?

I was thinking it might be possible to thread one end and hollow out the other then screw on.

Please share thoughts.

Thanks everyone

Nick

 

[Grenadier1758]

Soft solder will hold the tip securely. Just use plenty of flux or a low temperature silver solder.

 

[RHensley]

I've welded for over 50 years. If it's steel it can be welded. Something that small a small tip torch and small steel rod. I've welded metal as thin as gasoline tanks with an accetoline torch and coat hanger. If I didn't know how and was fond of it then I would take it a welding shop for repair or any decent gun smith . Just a thought.

 

[Artificer]

Hi Nicholas,

Over the years I've found that many repro Steel Rammers made for 18th century through UnCivil War Period guns have soft soldered buttons or tips. The reason I know this is because when the tips came loose or off, I used low temp silver solder to join them permanently. It is possible the rod you have was made this way as well. I would clamp the rod in a vise, leaving maybe six inches of the forward part sticking out, and heating it with a propane torch to test it. As you heat it, use a pair of smooth jawed or padded pliers to grab it close to the button/tip and pull on it to see if it comes loose. If so and if there is a hole in the button/tip as there usually is, I would just cut the long rod piece off at the length I wanted AND MAKE SURE YOU ADD enough length to go into the hole in the tip/button. I would then hand file that additional length that goes into the tip to the required diameter to go into the button/tip. Then low temp silver solder the two pieces together. .

I have found attempting to just cut off a part of the rammer from the front and thread one end and drilling and tapping a hole in the other end, then turning them on an engine lathe to turn/drill/tap as necessary - to be pretty risky, even when running the lathe as slow as possible. You have to use a steady rest on the long part of the rod and you have to stuff rags around the rod where it comes out the back end of the hollow spindle at the rear of the headstock. It is by far much preferable if there is not much of the rammer that sticks out of the rear of the hollow spindle. Even a far better machinist than I am, could screw it up rather easily, if he/she is not used to doing this kind of work.

While a good welder can easily weld two cut pieces together, the problem is holding the rod and tip/button in alignment so the welder can do the job.

Actually if all you have to do is shorten the Rammer and the diameter of the rod is not a problem to go through the pipes or into the rammer hole in the stock, there is an easier way to do it. I would just cut off the end with the threads for the worm/ball screw. Then hand file that end to a diameter where you can tap it for a worm/ball screw.

Gus

 

[RHensley]

Hi Nicholas,

Over the years I've found that many repro Steel Rammers made for 18th century through UnCivil War Period guns have soft soldered buttons or tips. The reason I know this is because when the tips came loose or off, I used low temp silver solder to join them permanently. It is possible the rod you have was made this way as well. I would clamp the rod in a vise, leaving maybe six inches of the forward part sticking out, and heating it with a propane torch to test it. As you heat it, use a pair of smooth jawed or padded pliers to grab it close to the button/tip and pull on it to see if it comes loose. If so and if there is a hole in the button/tip as there usually is, I would just cut the long rod piece off at the length I wanted AND MAKE SURE YOU ADD enough length to go into the hole in the tip/button. I would then hand file that additional length that goes into the tip to the required diameter to go into the button/tip. Then low temp silver solder the two pieces together. .

I have found attempting to just cut off a part of the rammer from the front and thread one end and drilling and tapping a hole in the other end, then turning them on an engine lathe to turn/drill/tap as necessary - to be pretty risky, even when running the lathe as slow as possible. You have to use a steady rest on the long part of the rod and you have to stuff rags around the rod where it comes out the back end of the hollow spindle at the rear of the headstock. It is by far much preferable if there is not much of the rammer that sticks out of the rear of the hollow spindle. Even a far better machinist than I am, could screw it up rather easily, if he/she is not used to doing this kind of work.

While a good welder can easily weld two cut pieces together, the problem is holding the rod and tip/button in alignment so the welder can do the job.

Actually if all you have to do is shorten the Rammer and the diameter of the rod is not a problem to go through the pipes or into the rammer hole in the stock, there is an easier way to do it. I would just cut off the end with the threads for the worm/ball screw. Then hand file that end to a diameter where you can tap it for a worm/ball screw.

Gus

You know you could use a pic of 1x1 angle iron to keep it straight. You can not only weld or use soft solider but anyone who repairs A/C for homes (silver soldiering copper tubes) could use the hard silver solider and it would last a little longer. At any-rate most anyone in the craft could repair it. Might cost a few bucks but to keep it intact would be worth it. Oh and the pc of angle Iron could be used the same way pipe is aligned for welding. If were close I could show you what I am trying to say. Some times it's easier to do something than tell how.

 

[M. De Land]

Hi Nicholas,

Over the years I've found that many repro Steel Rammers made for 18th century through UnCivil War Period guns have soft soldered buttons or tips. The reason I know this is because when the tips came loose or off, I used low temp silver solder to join them permanently. It is possible the rod you have was made this way as well. I would clamp the rod in a vise, leaving maybe six inches of the forward part sticking out, and heating it with a propane torch to test it. As you heat it, use a pair of smooth jawed or padded pliers to grab it close to the button/tip and pull on it to see if it comes loose. If so and if there is a hole in the button/tip as there usually is, I would just cut the long rod piece off at the length I wanted AND MAKE SURE YOU ADD enough length to go into the hole in the tip/button. I would then hand file that additional length that goes into the tip to the required diameter to go into the button/tip. Then low temp silver solder the two pieces together. .

I have found attempting to just cut off a part of the rammer from the front and thread one end and drilling and tapping a hole in the other end, then turning them on an engine lathe to turn/drill/tap as necessary - to be pretty risky, even when running the lathe as slow as possible. You have to use a steady rest on the long part of the rod and you have to stuff rags around the rod where it comes out the back end of the hollow spindle at the rear of the headstock. It is by far much preferable if there is not much of the rammer that sticks out of the rear of the hollow spindle. Even a far better machinist than I am, could screw it up rather easily, if he/she is not used to doing this kind of work.

While a good welder can easily weld two cut pieces together, the problem is holding the rod and tip/button in alignment so the welder can do the job.

Actually if all you have to do is shorten the Rammer and the diameter of the rod is not a problem to go through the pipes or into the rammer hole in the stock, there is an easier way to do it. I would just cut off the end with the threads for the worm/ball screw. Then hand file that end to a diameter where you can tap it for a worm/ball screw.

Gus

Gus, a method I cooked up for positioning rod stock for welding or soldering, is to set up a piece of angle iron in a vice , V corner down. At the rod joint cut out a window in the V trough of the angle iron so you can get your torch to it and allowing the flame an exit port. This holds both sides in perfect alignment and allows the work to be rotated over the access window, if welding.
The window works well for solder as well because it keeps you from sticking to the angle iron, cradle jig, while maintaining perfect alignment.

 

[Artificer]

RHensley and M De Land,

The angle iron and especially with the cut out that M De Land mentioned does work well for round stock that is the same diameter of both pieces. However, the two pieces of a Rammer are tapered and different diameters, so it won't work as well to align tapered pieces that won't align nearly as well as for regular round stock.

Of course one could possibly use shim stock to better align the different sizes of the two pieces in the angle iron for welding or brazing and some clamps to hold everything together and in alignment for either type of joining?

Personally, I think it would be far less work just to cut the length needed off the threaded end of the rod and then file and thread the new "Rear" end of the Rammer. If the diameter of the rod is as bit too large for the pipes or Rammer hole in the stock, one could file it and use Emory cloth to reduce the diameter where needed, if one didn't have something like a belt sander or even a grinding wheel to do the major part of the stock removal .

Gus .

 

[ZUG]

Curious to see if anyone has ever repaired a broken steel ramrod. I have a Charleville button rod that I'm fond of, wanted to save the tip about 5 inches down and replace the rod.

Weld rod repair, or brazing repair ?

I was thinking it might be possible to thread one end and hollow out the other then screw on.

Please share thoughts.

Thanks everyone

Nick

I think it would be hard to beat a properly welded repair. A good TIG or MIG welder could do it in short order using two "Vee" block to align the two sections - cost should be under ten dollars.

 

[M. De Land]

RHensley and M De Land,

The angle iron and especially with the cut out that M De Land mentioned does work well for round stock that is the same diameter of both pieces. However, the two pieces of a Rammer are tapered and different diameters, so it won't work as well to align tapered pieces that won't align nearly as well as for regular round stock.

Of course one could possibly use shim stock to better align the different sizes of the two pieces in the angle iron for welding or brazing and some clamps to hold everything together and in alignment for either type of joining?

Personally, I think it would be far less work just to cut the length needed off the threaded end of the rod and then file and thread the new "Rear" end of the Rammer. If the diameter of the rod is as bit too large for the pipes or Rammer hole in the stock, one could file it and use Emory cloth to reduce the diameter where needed, if one didn't have something like a belt sander or even a grinding wheel to do the major part of the stock removal .

Gus .

If you are welding/soldering different diameter rods use the headstock and tail stock chucks in a lathe. Be sure to cover the bed with some ply wood or sheet metal. One needs to protect the bed from heat/sparks just as one does from grit when using a tool post grinder.

 

[Artificer]

The problem there can be if one cuts the end with the tip/button off too short near the end and then one can't get that end properly into the tail stock or head stock.

Gus

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi Nicholas,

Over the years I've found that many repro Steel Rammers made for 18th century through UnCivil War Period guns have soft soldered buttons or tips. The reason I know this is because when the tips came loose or off, I used low temp silver solder to join them permanently. It is possible the rod you have was made this way as well. I would clamp the rod in a vise, leaving maybe six inches of the forward part sticking out, and heating it with a propane torch to test it. As you heat it, use a pair of smooth jawed or padded pliers to grab it close to the button/tip and pull on it to see if it comes loose. If so and if there is a hole in the button/tip as there usually is, I would just cut the long rod piece off at the length I wanted AND MAKE SURE YOU ADD enough length to go into the hole in the tip/button. I would then hand file that additional length that goes into the tip to the required diameter to go into the button/tip. Then low temp silver solder the two pieces together. .

I have found attempting to just cut off a part of the rammer from the front and thread one end and drilling and tapping a hole in the other end, then turning them on an engine lathe to turn/drill/tap as necessary - to be pretty risky, even when running the lathe as slow as possible. You have to use a steady rest on the long part of the rod and you have to stuff rags around the rod where it comes out the back end of the hollow spindle at the rear of the headstock. It is by far much preferable if there is not much of the rammer that sticks out of the rear of the hollow spindle. Even a far better machinist than I am, could screw it up rather easily, if he/she is not used to doing this kind of work.

While a good welder can easily weld two cut pieces together, the problem is holding the rod and tip/button in alignment so the welder can do the job.

Actually if all you have to do is shorten the Rammer and the diameter of the rod is not a problem to go through the pipes or into the rammer hole in the stock, there is an easier way to do it. I would just cut off the end with the threads for the worm/ball screw. Then hand file that end to a diameter where you can tap it for a worm/ball screw.

Gus

I ended up deciding on the following; cut rod trip where it tapers to 1/4 then have a 1/4 rod welded. once together lathe or Emory down to around 15/64 taper. Only other option would be to open up the rammer mortise, which goes against my one rule, don't remove wood if you don't need to.

I ironically found that in Goldstein's book 'The Brown Bess' steel ramrods on the 1748 and 1756 patters were two pieces welded together, the shaft was spring steel and the tip was wrought iron.

Nick

 

[bptactical]

^^^ My concern would be that standard 1/4" stock from the hardware store is going to have the strength of a wet noodle, it's usually pretty poor low carbon steel.
If I was going to do it I would use a high carbon tool steel 1/4" rod, a 6' piece is only about $20.00 from McMaster Carr and hard silver solder the tip to it. Dont weld it, you will burn the carbon out and make it brittle at the joint.