Spanish smooth bores

[Loja man]

Hey all,
My cousins who is big into traditional muzzleloaders. He lives up near Detroit. He was down here in KY yesterday to see his mom. Claims to have a couple Spanish made smooth bores. I can’t seem to find any info out thier on them. In the past he has been known to stretch the truth….
I would appreciate any light you could shed on the topic.
Aaron

 

[cyten]

Firms like Jukar made a lot of cheap smoothbores

3 1/2 lb. .54/28 ga. smoothbore

Friend dropped by a few days ago to show me his newest smoothie. A .54 part oct. part round 22" barrel caplock weighing 3.5 lbs. Made in Spain and with the standard Spanish proof marks of 700KGS. The ramrod hole goes all the way thru to the buttplate and though the ramrod looks short it's way...

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

 

[Loja man]

So in essence they made a nondescript black powder shotgun? Did they make any Fowlers or other more historic representations?

 

[cyten]

I'm unsure, as my knowledge of reproductions is slim and extends only into the Italian firms like Uberti & Pietta

 

[Dave Markowitz]

IIRC, CVA once imported Spanish-made side-by-side shotguns.

Dixie Gun Works and some others sold the cheap, single shot shotguns for many years. If you search for "monkey gun" you'll get more results. One of the primary markets for them were Indians in South America. In a sense, they were the last of the muzzleloading trade guns.

 

[BillinOregon]

Aaron, could your cousin be referring to real Spanish arms -- escopetas? These saw wide use in the Spanish Southwest and in Spanish Florida. Almost no one seems to care about them, but I think they are fascinating.

TSHA | Escopeta

www.tshaonline.org

A thread on the subject that I started back in 2016:

Escopeta, anyone?

For some odd reason, Spanish firearms seem to get short shrift from many of us in the muzzleloading community, although they were the first to appear in North America, played an important role in the exploration of much of what is now the USA, and even figured in our Revolution. About the only...

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

 

[Loja man]

I grew up hunting with escopetas!! Well at least that was the generic Spanish word used in Bolivia for a…..wait for it… a shotgun!
The article you linked was interesting.
I don’t think my cousin is referring to real escopetas. He was going to send me pics when he got home. He was hoping I would be interested in reliving him of one. So I told him to send me some pic out of curiosity. I am saving my pennies for a Fowler. Believe me right now it is pennies!!
Aaron

 

[Loja man]

Just received this pic. He says it was a kit gun.. only says “Spain” on the berrel and is 58 cal.

 

[BillinOregon]

Aaron, it looks crude, but interesting. I am saving pennies for a fowler as well -- possibly a "Tulle" from Matt at TVM.

 

[Loja man]

It catches my interest some.. it has some features of a trade gun. My 11 year old has been interested in a smooth bore. I might look into it because the size might be convenient.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

back around 1976 CVA sold a percussion single barrel 20 or 12 ga with interchangeable chokes. (I think they called it the trapper and 15 yrs later sold a pistol they called the trapper.) about 1985or so, they sold a double 12 ga, a double 20 and IIRC, even a limited production double 410.

 

[Loja man]

back around 1976 CVA sold a percussion single barrel 20 or 12 ga with interchangeable chokes. (I think they called it the trapper and 15 yrs later sold a pistol they called the trapper.) about 1985or so, they sold a double 12 ga, a double 20 and IIRC, even a limited production double 410.

I don’t think this is one of those. It seems to have a octagon to round barrel. He said it was a kit but that it didn’t have a lock. The lock he ordered from TOTW. He says the barrel mesures 35”. He traded for it at some rendezvou in Indiana.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have one of the spanish made 28 gauge shotguns that Dixie sold in the sixties. It is "rough" but usable and has accounted for many rabbits. When I got it I could shoot it for 2&1/2 cents a shot, vs 12 cents for a twelve gauge shell. Back than it was a no brainer to use the 28 gauge.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I don’t think this is one of those. It seems to have a octagon to round barrel. He said it was a kit but that it didn’t have a lock. The lock he ordered from TOTW. He says the barrel mesures 35”. He traded for it at some rendezvou in Indiana.

The CVA trapper 12 ga had an octagon to round barrel. There were also a few Jukar and Ardesa guns that were made and not imported to the US. Sometimes brought back from Europe by Service men, etc.

 

[Loja man]

I have one of the spanish made 28 gauge shotguns that Dixie sold in the sixties. It is "rough" but usable and has accounted for many rabbits. When I got it I could shoot it for 2&1/2 cents a shot, vs 12 cents for a twelve gauge shell. Back than it was a no brainer to use the 28 gauge.

Did it resemble a Trade gun like this one?

 

[Loja man]

The CVA trapper 12 ga had an octagon to round barrel. There were also a few Jukar and Ardesa guns that were made and not imported to the US. Sometimes brought back from Europe by Service men, etc. View attachment 173722

The stories of how some of these guns have traveled!!

 

[Hermit Tim]

I've got a Spanish flintlock 28 gauge I picked up on gunbroker for a little over $100 back in 2014. It looks like the percussion gun in the video linked above only hasn't had the barrel chopped off. I'm guessing around a 28 inch barrel. Half stock like the one in the video. When I bought it the seller neglected to mention it would not stay at full cock. But I bought a flintlock shotgun in otherwise excellent condition for a hundred bucks so I didn't complain. Stuck it back in the safe and, just recently, got it out and pulled the lock. Gonna try to get it running but may have to look on the forum for advice as I have never worked on a flintlock action before. Anywho,,, I don't remember the brand and all I recall seeing stamped on the barrel were some proof marks. I believe it to be made by a company that made Mendi pistols. They show up on gunbroker from time to time. I think there is one on there now in .41. I also had a full stocked rifle in .36 for a while that was made by the same people. Ugliest thing you ever saw but it was a great shooter. They do exist but are getting harder to come by. If his price is right it might be nice to have.

 

[Hermit Tim]

Just looked at the picture you posted. The lock looks about the same but the one I have is nothing like that one pictured. His is much nicer than mine.

 

[Hermit Tim]

Just looked at the picture you posted. The lock looks about the same but the one I have is nothing like that one pictured. His is much nicer than mine.

I was wrong. I was thinking of the lock on another flintlock in the safe. The lock on my 28 looks just like the one in the video only flint instead of percussion.

 

[Loja man]

Thanks for jumping in Tim. I really don’t know what to make of the gun…to me it show a lot of trade gun characteristics. I know he has one that is still a box of parts… I may see if he be will part with that one..
Here’s a couple photos he sent me from when he was working on it.