Spanish Miquelet De Erraduras

[old gun]

can any one help me with information on this rifle -It was left to a friend by his grandfather and there is no information trail. what is it? what is it's value? It has the lock spring on the outside. The barrel starts as 6sided then changes to round.
On the top of the receiver is De Erraduras what does this mean? He was told it was a Spanish Miquelet, what is that? I have pictures but I am not familiar with this forum or how to post.

 

[jethro224]

I can't help with ID but I am moving your topic to where you may have a better chance of getting some info.

As far as posting the pictures... First you must load them to a photo-hosting sight such as photobucket.com or others. Then you can link the IMG code for your pics to your posts here on the muzzleloadingforum.

 

[mhb]

A photo would help, for sure. But, in a general sense, the Miquelet lock is typical of Spanish arms - it is a variant of the flintlock, and both long and short arms were made with such locks.
And, as a WAG, it might be that 'De Erraduras' refers to the material from which the barrel is made. 'Herraduras' is Spanish for 'horseshoes', I believe, and without the 'H' might be a variant spelling. The connection is that, at one time, barrels made of horseshoe NAILS - 'stub twist', were highly regarded in England, and, perhaps, elsewhere. But that is, as I said, merely a WAG.
mhb - Mike

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Very good guess Mike. Spanish barrels made from the best horseshoe iron from Biscay were labeled "Herraduras" in gold inlaid letters on the barrel. The misspelling might suggest a forgery.

dave

 

[mhb]

Dave:
Thanks! I had never heard of any barrels being made of, or marked as made from, horseshoes, per-se.
But, in fact, horseshoes were likely made of as good a grade of wrought iron as were the nails which the British preferred for barrelmaking at the time, and it would certainly take fewer of them (even worn-out) to make a barrel from.
It's always good to learn something!
mhb - Mike

 

[Claude Mathis]

This is from an antiquye pistol that sold a while back.

A good Spanish percussion pistol circa 1840, made in Eibar by Antonio Guisasola. The lock plate bearing his signature. The steel barrel inlaid with silver with the words "Fabricado De Herraduras En Eybar 1832". The percussion hammer made in the form of a engraved dogs head. The trigger guard and lock plate with traces of gold inlay. Overall lenght 14 inches.

 

[BrianL]

See pics in the topic titled "Spanish?". It shows the gold leaf "Herraduras

 

[BrianL]

This one is dated 1844

 

[dave_person]

Hi Mike,
According to Isidro Soler's 1795 treatise on Spanish gunmakers, the great gunsmith, Nicolas Bis was credited with discovering the value of old horseshoes for making gun barrels. He particularly praised those made of iron from Biscay. The iron mines in that region produce (still do today) some of the highest grade iron ore in the world. Again according to Soler, a typical 6 lbs octagon-round smoothbore barrel required 50 lbs of the best Biscayan horseshoes. The shoes were divided into a 14 lb pile for the breech, a 12 lb pile for the rest of the octagon section, and three 8 lb piles for the round part of the barrel. Each section was welded around a mandril separately and then the tubes were welded together to make the full barrel. It was a very expensive process but resulted in the best smoothbore barrels in the world at the time. The stub twist process using horseshoe nails was a little different. The nails were packed tightly in a hoop of iron and then the entire hoop was heated in the forge and beaten into flat skelps. The skelps were then hammer welded around a mandril in a spiral fashion.

dave

 

[ericb]

An interesting Thread. Now, if Charles64 can only get us a Picture...

E

 

[rickystl]

Hi Charles. sure hope you can post photos. Would love to see your friend's rifle. Sounds really interesting. Does the lock look similar to this:

Hi Dave! Thanks for the interesting information ref the horseshoes. Had no idea. I'm always learning something new on this Forum. Thanks, Rick.

 

[old gun]

I have found how to down load pictures to harddrive from e mail--now where do I find attachments to add to this post?
Thanks to all who have supplied info--

 

[rickystl]

Charles: If you like, you can email me the pictures and I will Post on your behalf. I'll send you a PM. Rick.

 

[rickystl]

Hello all. I'm Posting these first four photos on Charles64's behalf. I've ask for more photos. Especially a close up of the lock and butt plate area. Hopefully, more photos coming.
To me, this is a text book example of an early 19th Century Spanish sporting fowling piece. The lock, barrel, butt stock shape, trigger guard, wrist checkering, etc. make a great example. Seems in really nice condition too. Rick. :thumbsup:

 

[rickystl]

Here is a photo of the butt plate area. Very cool!
Rick.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Guys,
I cannot really see the barrel stamps very well, but I am going to guess that they indicate the barrel maker was Agostino or Juan Esteban Bustindui. That dates the barrel between 1740 and 1827. I suspect it is Juan and was made in the early 19th century. Both makers worked in Eibar although Agostino also worked in Madrid. They may not have stocked the gun but simply made the barrel. The jaw screw and cock are strange for a miquelet lock. I wonder if they were replacements? Indeed, the frizzen spring looks really odd and the whole lock looks much too crudely made for a product of the Bustindui family. Perhaps some lesser skilled provincial maker restocked and mounted an old Bustindui gun.

dave

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dave. Thanks so much for your input. Charles is tending to a sick Family member at the moment. But I've asked him - when he has the opportunity - for additional close-up photos of the lock and barrel stamps. You noticed the top screw lacks the traditional "ring" found on Spanish locks. As well, the frizzen spring was made without a cover, or possibly missing the cover? Hard to tell without a closer view of the lock. I own a Spanish miquelet lock (only) that was made without a frizzen spring cover, and lacks the ring on the top screw. Come to think of it, I should Post photos of this lock. Most unusual Spanish lock I've ever seen.
Here is a pistol I own that is supposed to have been made (or at least the barrel) by the Bustindui family. It has the correct family barrel stamp, but lacks the rampart lion. I've often wondered if the barrel stamp was a fake? But the quality of the gun is up to snuff.
Anyway, I'll quit rambling on here and hope to see more photos from Charles. I'm really curious about that lock. Rick.

 

[miqueleter]

Nice fowling piece. IMO, the lock, although somewhat butchered by some long ago hack, is a tres modas miquelet entirely correct for the time and place for that piece. As Dave has pointed out, the frizzen spring is not right, looks to be a back yard mechanic fix. The top jaw screw looks like a CVA screw. Here is a tres modas lock common to the period.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j388/miqueleter/tresmodas1.jpg

My two cents worth.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Miqueleteer,
Beautiful lock!! Thank you for posting it. I love those locks.

Ricky, according to my source (Neal's book on Spanish guns) your pistol was made by a maker named "Busoms" who worked during the 1780s. The barrel stamp is a perfect match.
dave

 

[rickystl]

Hi Miqueleter! Yes, thanks for posting that lock. A beauty! The frizzen spring on Charles's lock does look like a crude replacement. Probably by someone who did not know what it is supposed to look like. This gun is nice enough to restore that frizzen spring to it's proper look. Just my opinion.
I'll post a Spanish lock I own for comparison. Thanks for your input. Rick.