Southern Department, Native Americans

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
Did, The Continental Army have Indian Scouts ? Did Native Americans assist Patroit Militias ?
Would encampments include Native American women ? :hatsoff:
 

mikee51848

54 Cal.
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
0
In the north, yes, the Oneida tribe allied with the Continentals. I don't believe, at least I've never heard of, of any such alliance in the south. That would include scouts. If someone has a reference to one, great.
 

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
Would Native Americans have been encamped with the British Army....or a Loyalist Army ?
 

mikee51848

54 Cal.
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
0
Up north, both. Pick up a book on Butler's Rangers, Joseph Brandt, or Burgoyne's campaign. Again, I've never heard of any Indian cooperation in the south. Indian wars yes, but no alliances with the Brits. But I will admit to some ignorance on my part of the southern campaign.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
240
Reaction score
1
Thomas Brown had some Creeks with him and his East Florida Rangers throughout the war.

I've read where upwards of 1,000 of them were with him at Augusta in 1780.

Also, the Creeks sent a sizeable contingent to help out in West Florida against the Spanish.
 

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
Five civilized tribes.....
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7m8OvHtORGwApOxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1Zzc2ZDJyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0FDQlkwM18xNDE-/SIG=126thnlqe/EXP=1316760718/**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Civilized_Tribes

I have a friends.....in the Carolinas that Pow Wow and they want to know if they can attend Re-enactments in "Regalia" and be period correct.

Hell, I don't know....but I have seen Indians and men living with Indian....at Cowan Fords ....

What gives on eastern Native Americans and the Southern Department of the Revolutionary War ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mikee51848

54 Cal.
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
0
I found out some info for you, from another board:

The militia and state troops of Charleston, SC, were aided by a small band of
Catawba in 1776, before, during and after the Battle of Sullivan's Island.
Estimated size of the group is no more than 65. Their specific actions and
duties are unknown to me.
and
"There was a British Southern Indian Department. This site for the reenactment
organization includes a very good section on the history thereof, including the
Revolutionary War:" http://southernindiandept.org/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mikee51848

54 Cal.
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
0
Slippyfoote said:
Five civilized tribes.....

What gives on eastern Native Americans and the Southern Department of the Revolutionary War ?
:confused: :confused:
 

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
Thanks.....I do remember a reference....not exactly mind you...but it was something like the Bloody Ground...referenced Indians used as Special Forces at Sullivans Island....they didn't take prisoners, I do remember that.

We used to have alot of folks on the Forum that knew stuff.....are they all dead ?

I ain't much better off.....just wish they'd chime in on what is an important subject to me and others that want to Pow Wow with the re-enactors here in the south.
 

nchawkeye

58 Cal.
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
2,227
Reaction score
30
All the old folks can't remember anymore...

In all my reading of King's Mountain, Cowpens, Guilford Courthouse and Francis Marion's campaigns I don't remember any references to Native Americans helping on the Rebel side...And if Ferguson had of had some he wouldn't still be on King's Mountain... :)

I believe most were siding with the British, hoping to run us out of here...The British tended to tell them what they wanted to hear, not the truth...

Hope you and yours are doing well old friend...
 

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
Really appreciate the link : http://southernindiandept.org/

This is exactly what we need. I have been reading the history option on this site for well over an hour.....and also came across Thomas Brown and Creeks. This is simply wonderful..

Wisdom is in short supply......thanks so much for your leadership and cheerful service.

Heart you're the best. :hatsoff:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
240
Reaction score
1
Thomas Brown also worked closely with Cowkeeper's band of Seminoles based out of the Alachua area.

The British did a great job of wooing the southern natives. They had several advantages over the Americans. The British had a system in place and had already established close ties with many of the southern tribes since even prior to the end of the F&I war, they had greater access to trade goods (especially early in the war), and the natives simply did not trust the Americans for numerous reasons including their alliance with France and Spain.

There are some great books out there that go into great detail on this subject.

There are lots of references to British-Native cooperation in the southern theater, but remember that this was in a military context.

I don't know what kind of "Pow-Wowing" your friends are into but if it's the kind I've seen with the big western and plains styled get-ups they will most definitely NOT fit in at a southern Rev War era encampment.
 

mikee51848

54 Cal.
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
0
I received this info today,lots to look at and digest:

Re: Indian cooperation in the southern campaign?





A few months ago, I stumbled (again!) upon a long list of N/A locations from
about 1740 to 1840. I narrowed them down to 1775-1783. More info on that
effort can be found here: http://gaz.jrshelby.com/rw-roads/cpi-project.htm
Since most of them were sites of the southern colonies "putting down" the
Indians, I did what I could to locate the sites of the actions to which the
provinces were retaliating. I found a fair amount of this in old county and
regional histories, since it was usually one trapper at a time, or the massacre
of one isolated family at a time. After creating RevWar maps over about 10
years, this is the most location data for sites *involving* N/A I have been able
to amass. In most of these actions, the N/A were either the attacker or the
attacked, but if you scan the brief descriptions, you can find actions is which
the N/A were involved in other ways.
See: http://gaz.jrshelby.com/rw-roads/Conflicts-1775-1782.htm
With Elvin Birth's "Sullivan Campaign" data included: http://gaz.jrshelby.com/rw-roads/Conflicts-1774-1783-N&S.htm
After digging into this stuff for a decade, this was an eye-popping experience
for me. I am sure that many of these locations can be refined, because all this
fell together for me almost faster than I could keep up with it.

I used the route and the campsites from this NC Archives map http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uploads/2008/08/rutherford-trace-with-text.jpg
and used extracted data from the same set used in the above maps to make this
map of "Rutherford Trace": http://gaz.jrshelby.com/rw-roads/rutherford-trace-1776-cpi-locations.htm

John Robertson
Global Gazetteer of the American Revolution http://gaz.jrshelby.com/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rudy parnell

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
418
Reaction score
0
I am thinking you are right.....and I am concerned about this element.....Wounded Knee is not an option for the Southern Department. Agreed.
Your thoughts and reflection is appreciated and important. Many Thanks.
 

Okwaho

54 Cal.
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
1,864
Reaction score
1
nchawkeye said:
All the old folks can't remember anymore...

In all my reading of King's Mountain, Cowpens, Guilford Courthouse and Francis Marion's campaigns I don't remember any references to Native Americans helping on the Rebel side...And if Ferguson had of had some he wouldn't still be on King's Mountain... :)

I believe most were siding with the British, hoping to run us out of here...The British tended to tell them what they wanted to hear, not the truth...

Hope you and yours are doing well old friend...
Somewhere in my old genealogical notes I believe there is a citation to one of my South Carolina ancestors,Robert Patton as "having commanded a detachment of Catawba scouts during the King's Mountain campaign". When I get back into my genealogy I will try to find that quote.It has always intrigued me.
Tom Patton
 
Top