Someone Talk Me Out of a Howdah

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Enfield58, Feb 21, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

Tags:
  1. Mar 29, 2019 #141

    rodwha

    rodwha

    rodwha

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Lakeway, TX
    I’ve often contemplated it as an excellent platform were you to need to track something like a wounded hog. It would work rather well for going through the thicker stuff they often run for.
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  2. Mar 30, 2019 #142

    Woodnbow

    Woodnbow

    Woodnbow

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    167
    Yep, handy, with two quick and powerful shots. After that, well, I guess you’re hoping your catch dogs are brave...
     
  3. Mar 30, 2019 #143

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    [​IMG] T+L-with-stock-profile-cropped.jpg
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  4. Mar 30, 2019 #144

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Alberta Canada.
    Very tight rake on the first one Enfield.
    I do like the second!
    Whoever lined that case didn't have much of a plan. (Hope it wasn't you!)
     
  5. Mar 30, 2019 #145

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    Not me.

    I actually found a few other photos of original Howdah Pistols with detachable shoulder stocks but was not able to post them.
     
  6. Mar 30, 2019 #146

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Alberta Canada.
    I think the shoulder stocks Enfield, are quite kosha, but probably more used by say officers of irregular cavalry, where better shooting was required than a pistol could bestow.

    I don't like using the term "Officers" as it is too much bandied about these days, but this seems to fit the bill for such pistols with provision for a shoulder stock.
    (Scinde Irregular Horse, type of thing)
    On an elephant, another double rifle as back -up makes more sense for most occasions than a pistol trying to be one.

    All the best,
    Richard.
     
  7. Apr 6, 2019 #147

    nhmoose

    nhmoose

    nhmoose

    58 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    Likes Received:
    136
    Location:
    north of Golden Pond, NH
  8. Apr 7, 2019 #148

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    I broke down and got the shoulder stock. The only problem with it is that it places the eye too high. I cannot get my cheek low enough look along the barrel and get the bead on target.

    Instead I'm looking on top of the barrel. This doesn't pose a problem when shooting shot.

    On the other hand, I couldn't figure out how low to aim when shooting the patched round ball.

    So, for the first time, I shot the patched round balls as a handgun not a shotgun.

    That was the most fun you could have with your clothes on!

    At ten yards, I had to look along the top of the barrel and place the bead on the target. It still shot a little low. Nevertheless, for a smooth bore pistol I didn't think it performed badly. The load was fffg measured with a Lee 3.4cc powder measure which averages about 52.5 grains. The ball was cast from the Pedersoli round ball mold of .614 caliber with .015" pillow ticking soaked with 2:1 olive oil beeswax mix.

    This is the ten shot group at ten yards.

    IMG_0633.jpg

    Back to the shoulder stock. Note the drop on the original Howdah compared to mine. The one I have needs another 1 1/2 inch lower drop.

    IMG_0629.jpg T+L-with-stock-profile-cropped.jpg

    This was the first time that I've ever shot a smooth bore by using the traditional black-powder wads. I was shocked at how large the patterns were compared to using a plastic shot wad at the same distance with the same loads.

    With the #4, #6 and #9 shot I got a pattern that spread out 4 feet or more! With the plastic shot wads the previous patterns would be about 1 1/2 foot in diameter.

    My friends and I attempted to shoot clay pigeons tossed by a hand thrower and my loads must be too light. One of my friends managed to break a pigeon that was rolled across the ground. We shot at a few pigeons that were stood up on the ground and a few pellets penetrated but didn't break them.

    Which makes me think I need more powder. Does 52-53 grains for an ounce of shot sound too light to anyone else?
     
    rodwha likes this.
  9. Apr 7, 2019 #149

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Alberta Canada.
    The load is a bit light, but think that the problem is the short barrels Enfield.
    I often use 2 drams and an ounce in sporting gun with maybe 30" barrels, and works V well, but your velocity is down with the short tubes I think. (2 drams about 55 grains.)
     
  10. Apr 7, 2019 #150

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    Thanks. I want to go back to patterning the same load with a plastic shot wad and see what happens first.

    Anyway, do you thing 60-70 grains too much or about right for a one ounce load using traditional black powder wads?
     
  11. Apr 7, 2019 #151

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    133
    Only issue with the Petraseldio Howdah is that they are UNSAFE to carry at the half cock’s notch with primed fulminate under the cocks.

    You can’t carry them capped, it’s not safe.

    So, you plan on using it as a snake gun or carrying in the field? Forget it. You’d have to pull the pistol, cock the hammers, and cap each barrel, all before firing. Totally impractical and useless, these are purely range novelty pistols and are not to be used for serious purposes.
     
  12. Apr 7, 2019 #152

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    70 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    890
    Location:
    England.
    Good test, thanks for sharing.
    You need 70grn for one ounce or equal volumes of powder to shot for sure.

    As for safety whilst carried there are many ways a capped nipple can be shielded from any percussion.
    Resting the hammers on thick leather or empty brass cartridge cases make for good protection
     
  13. Apr 7, 2019 #153

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Alberta Canada.
    Brit,
    Sometimes with old guns, if we push the powder up to the equal voume of the shot, our patterns are not as good.
    For years back home I'd use 2 drams and an ounce in a double 19 bore, and even used it in a 15 bore.
    For clearing out feral pigeons around the farm, I'd flock shoot them on the ground. (Hardly sporting!) with that old 15 bore single, and 1 1/4 ounces of English # 4.
    I'd get within 30 yards of them if I could, and let drive.
    For 3 shots, I recall clobbering 7, 10, and 14 pigeons to a shot. The lowish velocity made a dense pattern even at 40 yards, and the heavier shot got the job done.
    For flighting ducks, I'd use this very same load and it worked as well as my breechloader. (just slower to load!)

    All the best,
    Richard.

    Smokey,

    Are the half bent positions faulty on the locks in question?
    I suppose they could be re-cut to perform as they are usually meant to.
     
  14. Apr 8, 2019 #154

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    I got it strictly for novelty (fun) purposes. It was a blast to shoot those big pumpkin balls out of that hand-held-howitzer.

    The only thing I that I want to work on is the patterns with the shot loads. I know that's asking a lot of a short barreled gun but it's still fun to have it go bang and spew lots of smoke.

    I will be increasing the powder charge for sure. Do you think that will tighten the pattern? I figured that it would just push the shot at a higher velocity and hopefully break the pigeons.

    As far as carrying, I am just shooting this thing for fun. I have plenty of C&B revolvers for carrying if I need them.
     
  15. Apr 8, 2019 #155

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    70 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    890
    Location:
    England.
    It will increase the power
    For patterns sake use a few thin cards for a wad.
     
  16. Apr 8, 2019 #156

    yakipreacher

    yakipreacher

    yakipreacher

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    2
    I need to ask a question to be sure I know what I think I know??? Is it because these are muzzle loaders that they are exempt from short barreled or cut off shotgun restrictions? Or.... Is it legal to cut off an antique shotgun?
     
  17. Apr 8, 2019 #157

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    It is because these are muzzle-loaders that I don't have to pay for a tax stamp.

    As far as an antique shotgun is concerned, I would not recommend it.
    (1) It's an antique so why ruin the collector value?
    (2) If it's a breech loader and you cut the barrel down below 18" then you could be in trouble. As Randy Weaver about that.
    (3) Why not buy a Howdah? I don't regret my purchase at all.

    That's just my 2 cents worth.
     
  18. Apr 8, 2019 #158

    jimhallam

    jimhallam

    jimhallam

    Pilgrim

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    250yards outside the NRA (UK) Ranges at Bisley.
    Hi
    Just thought I'd add a pic om the last of my Howdahs --- it is a rifled 16gauge (x 1 7/8" brass case) with Damascus barrels and top-rib, by Barratt of Burton-on-Trent.
    Not got round to firing it yet (I have too much to do at present, what with volunteer work in the (British) NRA Museum at Bisley and also trying to expand ML pistol-shooting into the more traditional areas of timed- and rapid-fire, etc., as down at Wimbledon in the 1880s) but the old chap I bought it from cut down Greener brass cases and used a cast 12gauge ball !

    My best regards to Pukka Bundhook (hope to get to see you when I am next "oop in't t'North")

    HOWDAH 3.jpg
     
    Pukka Bundook likes this.
  19. Apr 8, 2019 #159

    yakipreacher

    yakipreacher

    yakipreacher

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    2
    I have an antique from a gun show that has no real value... ($65) I was thinking of rebuilding it into a howdah. The muzzle is garbage... bent etc. But if cut down it would be good. Just wanting to be sure I didn't trigger one of those spooky raids over a cut off shotgun if I did.
     
  20. Apr 8, 2019 #160

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    126
    Is it a muzzle loader? If yes, you are okay. If it is a breech loader you would be in violation of the NFA of 1934 - a felony.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white