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Some questions about flintlocks

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Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Messages
15
Reaction score
16
Location
Maryland
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
 
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
Too long for what? Asthetics? Can't beat the look in my book. Hunting, it will be more cumbersome in the brush, and heavy ground cover. You will get a longer sight plane which can help accuracy. Not saying a longer barrel is more accurate, but longer sight plane makes for a finer set of sights. My love for muzzleloader started with the long barrel and is still there today.
Larry
 
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
“Too long” is all personal preference but I will give you my experience. I was wary about long barrels when having my fowler made but I could not be happier that I chose 44 inches rather than shorter. I am 5’7 and dont even notice the length. So in the end I would just go with what you like! Dont be worried about long length being an encumbrance. My personal opinion is that if you are already tramping through the woods with a 38-40 inch barrel, then a few inches more doesnt make a difference. Just my personal opinion however! I dont think you can go wrong either way as long as the looks appeal to you. I am so happy I chose the length I did. Good luck!
 
Get the Colonial, .54 caliber, would be correct for Maryland in the 1775-1800 time frame and a .54 with a round ball and 70-90grs FFF black powder is perfect for whitetails...Or, get the Woodsrunner, it has a bit shorter barrel but is still good for that time frame, maybe even 10 years earlier...
 
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
Where in Maryland if you dont mind me asking? I was born an Eastern shore boy. I Just drove back to CT after visiting for Thanksgiving.
 
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
For late 18th century Maryland a Pennsylvania style long rifle, flint of course, in .40, .45, or maybe .50 with a 42"-46" barrel would be appropriate. The Kibler Colonial would also work for a smoothbore. Just depends on how closely you want to match a specific point of the late 1700's.
 
Where in Maryland if you dont mind me asking? I was born an Eastern shore boy. I Just drove back to CT after visiting for Thanksgiving.
I am from Seneca, MD which where I live on the farm has been redistricted to Poolesville so I guess I live in Poolesville now... its in Montgomery County right on the Potomac. Our farm sits right on the Seneca Quarry and Riley's Lock on the C&O.
 
For late 18th century Maryland a Pennsylvania style long rifle, flint of course, in .40, .45, or maybe .50 with a 42"-46" barrel would be appropriate. The Kibler Colonial would also work for a smoothbore. Just depends on how closely you want to match a specific point of the late 1700's.
Yea I saw Track of the Wolf had a Maryland Long Rifle kit so I called and asked if all parts for the kit were available and I was told that a lot was on backorder and they dont know when the parts will come in. I want the rifle to something a Marylander wouldve had back then.
 
Get the Colonial, .54 caliber, would be correct for Maryland in the 1775-1800 time frame and a .54 with a round ball and 70-90grs FFF black powder is perfect for whitetails...Or, get the Woodsrunner, it has a bit shorter barrel but is still good for that time frame, maybe even 10 years earlier...
One thing I am not the largest fan of is brass on rifles and I really dont like brass tacks on smoothbores. I like rifles that dont have the brass nose cap I wonder If I can get a Kibler Colonial without the brass nosecap and have just plain old wood.
 
If that's you in the avatar, holding that massive deer head, with the massive antlers, then buy a rifle.

You'll enjoy hunting deer with a rifle much more than a smoothbore.

And go with the 38 inch barrel.

IMHO
That is me and that was on heck of a day. I took him at 43 yards with my longbow. He ran 10 yards then made a dash for the Potomac. He stopped about 7-9 yards before the ground dropped off to the river. All in all he made a 25 yard dash. I would go out on a limb and assume if someone had taken a photo of me watching that deer run right for the river my face would be very palw and grim looking. That was a fun day...
 
Too long for what? Asthetics? Can't beat the look in my book. Hunting, it will be more cumbersome in the brush, and heavy ground cover. You will get a longer sight plane which can help accuracy. Not saying a longer barrel is more accurate, but longer sight plane makes for a finer set of sights. My love for muzzleloader started with the long barrel and is still there today.
Larry
Good to know about the length helping with accuracy. I am a still hunter so I usually post up at a tree or a log and sit on a deer trail or honey hole and then strike from the shadows. I guess length will add to weight which will help with offhand shooting. I didnt know if too long of a barrel was bad for a small caliber like .45 caliber... I guess I should've made that question a bit more clear and to the point.
 
One thing I am not the largest fan of is brass on rifles and I really dont like brass tacks on smoothbores. I like rifles that dont have the brass nose cap I wonder If I can get a Kibler Colonial without the brass nosecap and have just plain old wood.

If you want a rifle, made in the Colonies, from say 1770-1790 or so, then it will have brass...The purpose of the brass nose cap is to protect the wood, it's not just for decoration...
 
If you want a rifle, made in the Colonies, from say 1770-1790 or so, then it will have brass...The purpose of the brass nose cap is to protect the wood, it's not just for decoration...
Oh I see, i thought it was for decor as I have seen rifles and smoothbores with no nosecap present and just wood that goes until the end lf the barrel.
 
I considered the same things before purchasing my first flintlock. My ancestors, where they traveled and settled in the new world, and what I liked. After a lot of research on my ancestors, I settled on a Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle since I had family that migrated from Colonial VA into Western NC and north into the Appalachians of Southwest VA and Eastern KY. Being raised in the mountains the SMR just sorta clicked with me. The barrel length on mine is 44" with a total overall length of 60" and I love it. Coincidentally, mine also has a Cherry stock but in a 40 caliber. Being from the far east I would think the SMR may be a little out of character, but you may find you had ancestors like mine that did a bit of traveling before they settled and there is nothing that say's you can't have more than one.
 
I hunt with a Fowler that has a 46" bbl. I hunt in the woods in Kentucky. I don't have any problem with the length.

I agree the Colonial which is 1760s-1770s era would fit the timeframe better than the Southern Mountain Rifle which is a later style. The colonial is a little earlier style than late 18th century as you specified but those guns would have been in use later regardless. The Colonial has a 44" bbl.
 
I considered the same things before purchasing my first flintlock. My ancestors, where they traveled and settled in the new world, and what I liked. After a lot of research on my ancestors, I settled on a Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle since I had family that migrated from Colonial VA into Western NC and north into the Appalachians of Southwest VA and Eastern KY. Being raised in the mountains the SMR just sorta clicked with me. The barrel length on mine is 44" with a total overall length of 60" and I love it. Coincidentally, mine also has a Cherry stock but in a 40 caliber. Being from the far east I would think the SMR may be a little out of character, but you may find you had ancestors like mine that did a bit of traveling before they settled and there is nothing that say's you can't have more than one.
My ancestors actually didnt come to America until about 1839. They were Scots who came to work on the Great Lakes building ships. However they decided to find employment in building the C&O Canal which they helped build an maintain until 1850 and then worked as part of a regional maintainer firm until the Civil War. In 1861 my ancestors joined the 2nd Maryland Infantry and then later mustered out to join the 5th Maryland to guard DC and their homes. My family had a hand in working on the C&O until 1912 when the the firm the family worked for and later bought went under after the government stopped handing out maintenance contracts and the canal closed in 1924. From 1912 to now we have solely relied on our farm and other employment. The oldest photograph we have of a family member outside the Union Army photos is in 1871 when my Great Great Grandfather had a photo taken with his 1803 Harper's Ferry he had captured from a Confederate soldier at a skirmish at Maryland Heights. It was bored out smooth to .60 or .65 caliber I cant remember but the rebs didnt want the rifling so they smoothed it out. He kept it has his hunting weapon of choice. I will see if I can dig up the picture, he is wearing a kilt and some sort of animal fur hat..... quite the sight.
 
About a week ago I posted on here about some rifles in a local shop. All sold before I could make my decision which is my fault. I decided that I should probably get a custom rifle and smoothbore compared to a production firearm. That being said I have found a rifle here on the forum that has caught my eye it is a Cherry Stocked .45 caliber rifle. It has a 46" barrel, is this too long ? I want a long rifle like the men on the frontier had and by what I have seen on the internet most are 38"- 48" long on most custom build sites. The second route I was thinking on taking was building a Kibler Rifle however I dont know what style to build, "Southern" or " Colonial" . I guess which ever style wouldve been more prevelant in Maryland in the late 18th Century, if anyone knows which style best resembles that feel free to share your opinions or facts. I dont have a caliber in mind yet as of now for a rifle. As for a Smoothbore, I dont know what bore to get but definitely will want a rear sight. Idk if I will get the smoothbore or thr rifle first. Thanks to anyone who reads this and leaves their thoughts.
I would go with the Colonial (54cal) from Jim Kibler can't beat the quality and the era in Maryland fits just fine, personally love a long barrel great sight line. I feel you would be more satisfied with the rifled barrel over the smooth
 
I hunt with both rifles and smoothbores and thoroughly enjoy both. I have taken plenty of game with both. Sure, I do get a bit more range with a rifle, but for me one of the most challenging, and thrilling aspects of big game hunting is getting as close to the game as possible. I have never taken a shot at big game with a muzzleloader beyond about 60 - 70 yards, usually much closer. Even with a modern rifle my longest shot was 192 paces at a pronghorn on the wide open Wyoming plains. (I had crawled on my belly though the sage and cactus to get that close.) I don't believe long range "sniping" at game animals is fair chase.

My .62 (20 gauge) flintlock fowler is a close replica of a chief's grade trade gun from the 1740's - 1750's era. It has a 42 inch barrel, octagon to round. It has no rear sight, yet I find it accurate enough with a .60 patched round ball to take deer out to about 50 yards. That 320 grain round ball smacks deer like a 20 gauge rifled slug. Of course, loaded with small shot it is also good for small game and turkeys.
A smoothbore is, without doubt, the most versatile firearm ever made.
This particular gun of mine was made by Caywood of Arkansas. I bought it "in the white" and finished it myself, but that was over 30 years ago.

My main hunting rifle for over 20 years has been a .50 percussion longrifle in the Lancaster style that I built myself back in 1998. It has a 42 inch straight barrel. More than just a few deer have fallen before it.

However, last spring I purchased a used .50 flintlock late Lancaster style rifle. It was made sometime around the year 2000 by a J. Fahling of either Kentucky or Ohio. I haven't been able to find much information about him. It is a beautiful rifle gun! I worked up a good load for it on my 60 yard backyard range and have been hunting deer and wild boar with it this season. So far, I missed one buck when a tree jumped into my line of fire. So, this gun hasn't taken any game yet, at least not with me at the trigger. But it is just a matter of time.

Ancestry; I had ancestors arrive on the Mayflower. They had matchlocks, and maybe a wheellock or snaphaunce or two, but they were all smoothbores. Yes, there are people still using those early types of firearms today.
From the very beginnings of European settlement in North American up to just after the French and Indian War (1600-1760's) smoothbores were by far the most common firearms in North America. Sure, there were a few rifles, mostly European jaegers and other types. The transition from those shorter, larger caliber types to what today we call "longrifles" or "Kentucky rifles", or "Pennsylvania rifles", began shortly before our American War for Independence.
So, in general, before the Revolution smoothbores were prevalent. After the Revolution rifles became the dominate gun in the North American forests. The regional differences, the various "schools" of longrifles, developed after the Revolution.
So, if you are trying to find something your ancestors could have carried, then choose your time period and then choose a firearm by what was commonly available at that time. If you just want to hunt and have fun with muzzleloaders, get whatever you want.

Geez. This is fun!
 
"So, in general, before the Revolution smoothbores were prevalent. After the Revolution rifles became the dominate gun in the North American forests. The regional differences, the various "schools" of longrifles, developed after the Revolution."

Where?? Jaegers were imported into the Colonies prior to the 1750s...Deer hides were a major export back to England for protection in the shops that made trade items for the Natives...In the back country, there were plenty of rifles prior to 1779...Rifles were prevalent at the Battle of Moores Creek Bridge, Saratoga, Kings Mountain, Cowpens, Guilford Courthouse, Lindley Mill, etc...

Up and down the eastern seaboard, smoothbores, imported from England may have been prevalent...England could produce them much cheaper than we could in the Colonies and smoothbores were great for geese, ducks, and small game on the coast, the deer population was greatly reduced after over 150 years or so of colonization....But, there were plenty of rifles from Pennsylvania, down through the Shenandoah Valley, through the Yadkin River Valley and even in the Upstate of South Carolina....
 
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