Smoothrifles

[Ramrod Jack]

I am interested in the history behind smoothrifles. Does anyone have suggestions on what to read and/or where to look?

I'm looking for things like:

When did they first appear?
Who made them?
Where were they used most?
What wood was used for stocks and was it quarter sawn or plain sawn?
Were they conversions after a barrel was shot out?
What gunsmiths made them and where were they from?
What furniture was used?
Were stocks carved?
Were they schimmels?

I guess I have lots of questions. Hope to at least get a finger pointed in the right direction.

Thanks.

 

[Huntschool]

I am interested in the history behind smoothrifles. Does anyone have suggestions on what to read and/or where to look?

These answers are not meant to be smart.. I do not have any book titles to offer. particular to smooth rifles... sorry

I'm looking for things like:

When did they first appear? I am not sure of a specific particular start date.... I do know they were being made as early as the early 1700's or so in PA and likely much earlier then that.....
Who made them? Almost any gunsmith
Where were they used most? Everywhere from military to frontier use
What wood was used for stocks and was it quarter sawn or plain sawn? You name it they likely used it/did it
Were they conversions after a barrel was shot out? Could have been but they were also built that way
What gunsmiths made them and where were they from? Any gunsmith could build smooth bore guns
What furniture was used? Whatever the smith or buyer wanted
Were stocks carved? They could have been
Were they schimmels? That term gets bantered about so much I would have to know what you think a Schimel actually is

I guess I have lots of questions. Hope to at least get a finger pointed in the right direction.

Thanks.

 

[tenngun]

The first ones were Wheelock on
Colts foot stocks that looked just like colts foot rifles. Only the wealthy bought these guns so it’s unlikely it was a cost saver. Possibly a response to the question on rifeling being a Devil’s device.
Some may have been rebored smooth, most seem to have been made that way. Called rifle mounted fusils in the day. Some may have been poor boys plain guns some were as fancy as the best rifles.

 

[Ramrod Jack]

To me, a Schimmel is a barn gun without gunsmith carving, engraving, or a patchbox. Stock might be ash or some other lesser used hardwood, and it would likely have only two thimbles for the ramrod and no nose cap.

Any carving or engraving would have been roughed in by the owner, but it is unlikely to be there. Those are my thoughts.

 

[Ramrod Jack]

The first ones were Wheelock on
Colts foot stocks that looked just like colts foot rifles. Only the wealthy bought these guns so it’s unlikely it was a cost saver. Possibly a response to the question on rifeling being a Devil’s device.
Some may have been rebored smooth, most seem to have been made that way. Called rifle mounted fusils in the day. Some may have been poor boys plain guns some were as fancy as the best rifles.

I guess that's why they needed files? To smooth their calloused foot rifles?

Meh, rifling is wasted money in a time when game was plentiful and just jumped right into your bag. Squirrels would cut their own throat with your patch knife. Terrible thing, your bag would get bloody and you'd shoot the squirrel just for stealing your knife. Didn't mean much to the squirrel. He was dead already from blood loss.

Eastern woods bison would come right up and lick your ear while you were trying to snooze against a tree. Yeah, they were nasty. Slobber all down the side of your face and in your beard, like the snot you tried to blow out when it got caught in your mustache. lol

Somehow I thought fusils all lacked a rear sight. I'd have to paint a little vee groove on my spectacles to get a good bead on a critter or painted parchment.

 

[Ramrod Jack]

Thanks fellers. Much appreciated. I'll keep looking, just thought I'd ask.

 

[tenngun]

Many smoothies had rear sights,long range,200 yard smoothies were made as target guns in the seventeenth century. The smooth rifle was like a rifle in every sense but the bore, and was made where ever rifles were made

 

[tenngun]

I guess that's why they needed files? To smooth their calloused foot rifles?

Meh, rifling is wasted money in a time when game was plentiful and just jumped right into your bag. Squirrels would cut their own throat with your patch knife. Terrible thing, your bag would get bloody and you'd shoot the squirrel just for stealing your knife. Didn't mean much to the squirrel. He was dead already from blood loss.

Eastern woods bison would come right up and lick your ear while you were trying to snooze against a tree. Yeah, they were nasty. Slobber all down the side of your face and in your beard, like the snot you tried to blow out when it got caught in your mustache. lol

Somehow I thought fusils all lacked a rear sight. I'd have to paint a little vee groove on my spectacles to get a good bead on a critter or painted parchment.

Colts foot, not calloused foot. It was an early central European design that combined a pistol grip with a tiller as a counter balance. It was held in front in a stance like a two handed pistols hold, mixed with a rifle hold, and notmade to brace against the body at all.

 

[rich pierce]

I am interested in the history behind smoothrifles. Does anyone have suggestions on what to read and/or where to look?

I'm looking for things like:

When did they first appear? Who knows? Do you mean in America? There are some from the 1760s.
Who made them? Gunsmiths, mostlay in eastern Pennsylvania
Where were they used most? Eastern Pennsylvania (anyone who can show different, please do so)
What wood was used for stocks and was it quarter sawn or plain sawn? Obscure question. Maple, walnut.
Were they conversions after a barrel was shot out? Sometimes to often
What gunsmiths made them and where were they from? Christians Spring gunsmiths, Lehigh gunsmiths, Bucks County gunsmiths, Berks County gunsmiths, Lancaster County gunsmiths,York County gunsmiths
What furniture was used? Rifle furniture if you really mean smooth rifle and not fowling pieces
Were stocks carved? Often some tang carving and moldings
Were they schimmels? Schimmel is a term popularized by Chuck Dixon for Berks County barn guns, so, yes, some were schimmel according to Chucks naming system

I guess I have lots of questions. Hope to at least get a finger pointed in the right direction.

Thanks.

 

[Ketchakah]

Besides everyone knows you use a Nipper when trimming a colts foot, The rasp/file is only to finish.
Teasing

I am quite interested in this concept. I am not convinced it was a desired thing. Not sure how to word it. Thinking...unfinished, but yet that does not make sense to me either. Just makes no sense to me in any way, so im trying to learn more. Perhaps the information will allude me.

 

[pondoro]

I thought (and I'm not in anyway pushing this as a theory) that "smooth rifles" persisted after the introduction of rifling, either as a cost saving or because of the military predjudice against rifling. I'm interested in if that is true and how long the period lasted.

 

[tenngun]

When rifeling was first used the church wondered why the ballshot well. It was theorized a demon could ride the spinning ball. Should some one be shot at by a rifle and missed that person could hear the demon scream as it shot by.
A test was done in early sixteenth century where lead ball was shot through a rifle and hit with deadly accuracy. Then the gun was shot with a silver ball that had been stamped with crosses and dipped in holy water. The stamped balls did not fly as true as the un stamped plain ball. Proving that rifles were evil.
That makes me wonder if some of the first Wheelock smooth rifles were made to avoid risk of witchcraft and Satan
Later?
There is a practical aspect to having onegun shoot shot and ball well, a local rifle maker would make a gun to the general pattern of the rifle guns he made.
Then there is the aspect of uncorrected vision. A man with near sightedness might see well enough to see game and to point at game, but not well enough to justify a rifle. So he went to his local builder and bought a ‘rifle mounted fusil.’
Then when local game was smaller, a man might have his gun freshened in to a smoothbore

 

[Huntschool]

Hey everyone..... I think Jack has moved on. Doesn't seem like he liked our answers.....

 

[8 BORE]

You didnt answer his question.

 

[tenngun]

The only question I see that wasn’t covered was if the stocks were plain or quarter sawn, I think all else was covered.

 

[tenngun]

I am interested in the history behind smoothrifles. Does anyone have suggestions on what to read and/or where to look?

I'm looking for things like:

When did they first appear?
Who made them?
Where were they used most?
What wood was used for stocks and was it quarter sawn or plain sawn?
Were they conversions after a barrel was shot out?
What gunsmiths made them and where were they from?
What furniture was used?
Were stocks carved?
Were they schimmels?

I guess I have lots of questions. Hope to at least get a finger pointed in the right direction.

Thanks.

Sixteenth century
Rifle smiths
Where ever rifles were common among the local population
Don’t known
Yes some were conversions some were made that way
Any rifle smith, they were made where ever rifle making was in vogue
Brass iron steel silver ivory bone antler
Typicle time place specific furniture as was used on rifles of that date place
Yes.... if that was in style at that time and place
Some could be, but I think schimmels are more popular today then then ( caveat, I think more plane guns were destroyed during the metal drives of the first and second world wars, leaving a predator trap of higher quality surviving guns.) schimmels would serve better as shot gun

 

[rich pierce]

Bought 2 original smooth rifles at a local auction yesterday. Both are fullstock percussion, walnut stocked, iron mounted, and mid 1800s. One was originally rifled I presume because it has double set triggers. The other may have been smooth from the get-go.