Smoothbore TC Cherokee ?

[Bassdog1]

So I have a TC Cherokee with all 3 Barrels 32, 36 and 45 Cal. I have a chance to buy 4 45 Cal Cherokee barrels 2 have slight pitting and cleaned up pretty good but one of those has been drilled and tapped for a scope. The other two have significant deep pitting. These barrels are 13/16ths across the flats. For you smooth bore guys what diameter or Gauge could I have these bored out to and can these be bored with a choke. I know nothing of smooth bores but these two barrels will probably end up as scrap otherwise. Any help or advice is appreciated.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OK so you can have them bored out to .50 at least. That will ensure that any deep pits in the grooved portions of the barrel are eliminated.
This also allows you to use readily available .490 round ball if you want to try the barrel out on large game, and you want more UMPH than a .440 ball.
Now as far as chokes, you could have the barrel "jug" choked. It's an old method, but unless you're going to go after squirrels high up in a tree..., a choke is likely not necessary.

LD

 

[SDSmlf]

So I have a TC Cherokee with all 3 Barrels 32, 36 and 45 Cal. I have a chance to buy 4 45 Cal Cherokee barrels 2 have slight pitting and cleaned up pretty good but one of those has been drilled and tapped for a scope. The other two have significant deep pitting. These barrels are 13/16ths across the flats. For you smooth bore guys what diameter or Gauge could I have these bored out to and can these be bored with a choke. I know nothing of smooth bores but these two barrels will probably end up as scrap otherwise. Any help or advice is appreciated.

OK so you can have them bored out to .50 at least.

Going to .50 caliber in a 13/16” barrel could be dicy in my opinion. Rebore diameter will depend on depth of dovetail slots and screw holes. Would only leave .156” barrel wall thickness before taking into account slot and hole depths. I know the rib screw holes on one of my Cherokee barrels is .125” deep (checked with an indicator when I replaced a screw), not sure about sight screw holes as I didn’t check them. Not an expert, but believe .031” wall thickness (less if bore if off center in the barrel), could be approaching an ‘oh manure’ moment. Someone like Bobby Hoyt ((717) 642-6696) could answer your question once he has your barrel in hand.

 

[Bassdog1]

Ok I have used bobby for a couple of barrel refresh projects I was going to use this as a small game shotgun and add it to the set. I was hoping like a 28 or 20 gauge so that I could get wads and shot cards easily.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Ok I have used bobby for a couple of barrel refresh projects I was going to use this as a small game shotgun and add it to the set. I was hoping like a 28 or 20 gauge so that I could get wads and shot cards easily.

Oh no a 28 gauge in that size barrel is out of the question, as that's .55 caliber.

SDSmlf is right, so maybe get it bored to .47 at the most.

LD

 

[Bassdog1]

Ok good to know I can always figure out a way to make wad and shot cards. This is a project that I am considering not sold on it yet just trying to figure out if I can breath new life into these barrels.

 

[dave61965]

Maybe have him re line it to 410 bore, possibly thread it for common 410 choke tubes, I had a percussion 410 bore and foolishly let it get away, wouldn’t mind having another at all.

 

[user 48679]

Oh no a 28 gauge in that size barrel is out of the question, as that's .55 caliber.

SDSmlf is right, so maybe get it bored to .47 at the most.

LD

Think: .410" bore...…….

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I would say send it to Bobby Hoyt, and have him bore it out as far as it's safe to do so. I doubt seriously that .50 caliber is achievable. But, somewhere between 0.470"-0.485" probably is.

Thompson/Center used 0.005" deep grooves, so the groove diameter is already 0.460". If SDsmlf's measurements on his Cherokee barrel apply across the board to all Cherokees.....

13/16" diameter octagon barrel = 0.8125"
0.8125" - 0.460" = 0.3525"
0.3525" - 0.125" = 0.2275"
0.2275" ÷ 2 = 0.11375"
0.11375" = barrel wall thickness/.45 caliber rifle

0.8125" - 0.470" = 0.3425"
0.3425" - 0.125" = 0.2175"
0.2175" ÷ 2 = 0.10875"
0.10875" = barrel wall thickness/.470 caliber SB

0.8125" - 0.485" = 0.3275"
0.3275" - 0.125" = 0.2025"
0.2025" ÷ 2 = 0.10125"
0.10125" = barrel wall thickness/.485 caliber SB

0.8125" - 0.500" = 0.3125"
0.3125" - 0.125" = 0.1875"
0.1875" ÷ 2 = 0.9375"
0.09375" = barrel wall thickness/.50 caliber SB

The above calculations are dependent upon neither the front sight dovetail, nor the barrel key underlug dovetail, nor any other screw holes; being deeper than 0.125" deep.

Track of the Wolf usually has the .50 caliber muzzleloading wads, measuring 0.510" in diameter, in stock. Others here can speak to the viability of using a 0.510" diameter × 0.025" thick over shot card wad in a bore that's 0.0.25"-0.040" smaller in diameter. Of course, in a .50 caliber SB barrel the wads are the correct fit.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

On another note, there's a rifle on Clay Smiths for sale page that he had Bobby Hoyt bore out a 13/16" straight octagon barrel in .45 caliber that was badly pitted all the way to .50 caliber with a gain twist. It was a longrifle where the barrel pin lugs tend to be much shallower than the screw holes in a Thompson/Center rifle.

That's a barrel wall thickness of about 0.14225" before the underlugs and sight dovetails are taken into account.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Think: .410" bore...…….

I would but since the OP is writing about modifying one or more of the .45 barrels, since they already take a .440 ball plus a patch, turning them into .410 might be a little more expensive than a simple reaming out. I mean the barrel could be reamed, and then lined to .410... would make finding wads and coming up with shot loads easier...,

Now that I think about it, we always think of going UP in caliber and gauge, but why not once in a while when applicable, ream and line and go down in gauge ???

LD

 

[SDSmlf]

I would say send it to Bobby Hoyt, and have him bore it out as far as it's safe to do so. I doubt seriously that .50 caliber is achievable. But, somewhere between 0.470"-0.485" probably is.

Thompson/Center used 0.005" deep grooves, so the groove diameter is already 0.460". If SDsmlf's measurements on his Cherokee barrel apply across the board to all Cherokees.....

13/16" diameter octagon barrel = 0.8125"
0.8125" - 0.460" = 0.3525"
0.3525" - 0.125" = 0.2275"
0.2275" ÷ 2 = 0.11375"
0.11375" = barrel wall thickness/.45 caliber rifle

0.8125" - 0.470" = 0.3425"
0.3425" - 0.125" = 0.2175"
0.2175" ÷ 2 = 0.10875"
0.10875" = barrel wall thickness/.470 caliber SB

0.8125" - 0.485" = 0.3275"
0.3275" - 0.125" = 0.2025"
0.2025" ÷ 2 = 0.10125"
0.10125" = barrel wall thickness/.485 caliber SB

0.8125" - 0.500" = 0.3125"
0.3125" - 0.125" = 0.1875"
0.1875" ÷ 2 = 0.9375"
0.09375" = barrel wall thickness/.50 caliber SB

The above calculations are dependent upon neither the front sight dovetail, nor the barrel key underlug dovetail, nor any other screw holes; being deeper than 0.125" deep.

Track of the Wolf usually has the .50 caliber muzzleloading wads, measuring 0.510" in diameter, in stock. Others here can speak to the viability of using a 0.510" diameter × 0.025" thick over shot card wad in a bore that's 0.0.25"-0.040" smaller in diameter. Of course, in a .50 caliber SB barrel the wads are the correct fit.

You may want to check your math. The .125” deep screw holes should be subtracted from the wall thickness, not the remaining diameter (or you could double it to .250”, think radius vs diameter). Can make a big difference. Correcting your last example:
0.8125" - 0.500" = 0.3125"
0.3125" - 0.125" = 0.1875" 0.3125” / 2 = 0.15625”
0.1875" ÷ 2 = 0.9375". 0.15625” - 0.125” = 0.03125”
0.09375" 0.03125” = barrel wall thickness/.50 caliber SB

 

[ppg1949]

Whatever Bobby Hoyt says, I’d go with the largest he will do if it is just going to be for shot. I have a 32 ga/52 cal shotgun that is a fun gun. I get 32 ga wads from Precision Reloading. TOW has them also.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

You may want to check your math. The .125” deep screw holes should be subtracted from the wall thickness, not the remaining diameter (or you could double it to .250”, think radius vs diameter). Can make a big difference. Correcting your last example:
0.8125" - 0.500" = 0.3125"
0.3125" - 0.125" = 0.1875" 0.3125” / 2 = 0.15625”
0.1875" ÷ 2 = 0.9375". 0.15625” - 0.125” = 0.03125”
0.09375" 0.03125” = barrel wall thickness/.50 caliber SB

Your right. I don't know what I was thinking about. Thanks

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Please disregard my calculations in post #9. The information is not correct.

Bruce

 

[Britsmoothy]

If you can and do get it reamed and smoothbored it will be way better than 410!
My 45 never ceases to amaze me with 5/8-3/4oz of shot and with ball ( when I used to use ball. Legal disclaimer red tape statement nonsense). And is awesome with 5 .36 balls rolled down it!

 

[alfaguyml]

Bobby is doing a 45 Seneca barrel for me now - I have no idea what it will end up as, so just have to wait!