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Smoothbore skeet shooting

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A friend invited me to a skeet shoot Friday, I have never shot skeet before so I showed up with my .62 cal. smoothbore flintlock. It sounded like a good way to burn a little powder. I may try it again if I can overcome a few hurdles besides being not a very good shot at flying objects. :redface:

Two questions, how can I make preloads to aid the reloading process and is there a bench mark load to use shooting skeet for a straight .62 cal bore, 2f Goex powder, wad, #7 shot and os card?
 
MDK_WV said:
Two questions, how can I make preloads to aid the reloading process and is there a bench mark load to use shooting skeet for a straight .62 cal bore, 2f Goex powder, wad, #7 shot and os card?

I experimented a couple trips to my trap & skeet club off-hours...used a trap field and laid all my stuff out on a quilt on top of the trap house roof which was 3 feet up out of the ground.
Had sets of 35mm film canisters...one preloaded with powder, another set with shot.

I was using a .54cal/.28ga cylinder bore, 70grns Goex 3F, 1/2" lubed cushion wad, 1oz #7.5's, 2oz cards.
I set the trap to fire only one bird at a time, straight away...then I just casually walked around on either side of the trap house taking different angle shots, etc.
I didn't do well the first couple shots trying to just use the front trigger with all it slack, but when I started using the set trigger for faster overall execution I start smoking them...a lot of fun.

Planning to do the same on a skeet field with 60grns powder and 7/8oz #9s. Got a fly fishing vest with all it's pockets, plus a nail apron looking thing, to hold the various items needed for reloading when actually moving around a skeet field.
If I was going to use my .20ga, I'd just bump up the powder charge 10grns to keep the pressure up in the larger bore.

Others mileage may vary...
 
First, get some instructions on how to shoot Skeet. The clays come out fast, and are easy to miss. You won't learn much from missing skeet targets when you are new to the sport. Later, when you know how to swing, how much lead, and where to pint the muzzles, you will learn more from your "missed targets" than from the "hits".

I took the time to shoot skeet one station at a time until I mastered the points and leads. OH, I would walk the arc with a squad and shoot all 8 stations, but then I would work on just one station, shooting another 25 rds. I spent more tie on stations 3,4 5, and 8, than the others, where targets appear to be going straight away from you ( Stations 1 and 7), or the leads are fairly short( stations 2 and 6), and similar to what I was experienced at shooting at angled Trap targets.

Don't hesitate to use a modern suppository gun for this practice, as they allow you to do a lot of Correct Practice quickly, and learn your stances, swings, and points.

All the skills learned with a modern gun transfer to MLers. At Friendship, the Spring and Fall matches just happen to be set a week AFTER Indiana State shoots, and many of the Shotgun shooters at friendship take 2-week vacations, so they can shoot both matches- the first with their modern guns, and the latter with their MLers.

I am not sure what you mean for a " Bench mark load" for your 20 ga. Pattern your gun to find out what patterns you get at 20 and 25 yds. That will serve you well at Skeet shooting as the furthest target is only 22 yds from the station.

A check of my Hodgdon Dara manual, indicates a recommend shot load of either 3/4 or 7/8 oz. of shot, and 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 drams( 61 to 69 grains respectively) of FFg powder for the 2 gauge.

But, your pattern is ALL important- some would say the ONLY thing that is important! :shocked2: :hatsoff: Do you work at a patterning board and use the load that works best i your gun for YOU!

Once you get a chosen load, THEN-- and only then--- can you decide how you want to carry powder and shot to the field or at the ranges.

Most ranges have loading or "cleaning" benches behind the firing lines which range rules insist that you use. The concern is always about Range Safety for the shooters, the throwers, and bystanders. Modern Skeet fields tend to have gun racks to set your shotgun in while waiting your turn in the squad to shoot your rds from a station, but no real loading benches.


For those reasons, you will have to adapt your loading and cleaning procedures to each range.

At Friendship, all loading and cleaning is done at the benches behind the lines. When you have loaded your barrel(s), you approach the field again with the Muzzle UP, with no caps on the nipples, or in the case of flintlocks, unprimed pans, frizzen open, and cock forward. Only when you step to the line are you allowed to prime or cap your gun.

Carrying powder and shot charges in pre-measured quantities in separate tubes is as good a way to have these components at any range. Most will build a range box with a shelf that will hold 25 or 50 "Tube", along with larger "boxes" to hold wads and cards.

Visit some shoots and see how others "solve" the same problems. You will get a lot of good advice and ideas, and save a lot of money NOT buying the wrong "stuff"! :surrender: :thumbsup:
 
About hitting moving targets in general:

Rifle shooters learn to stand with their feet spread apart a bit further than the width of their shoulders. This LOCKS up their legs to the waist, giving them a solid " Platform " for off-hand shooting. The rifle is held across your chest, with your feet angled only 10-15 degrees to your target. Knees are locked. The only movement is from the waist UP.

Since most MLers start out as rifle shooters, this is the kind of off-hand stance we learn, and use, We might be able to hit a straight away target if it doesn't rise too much or too fast, but anything moving to one side or the other is usually a "miss".

Shotgunning requires a different stance. If you have ever boxed, or dribbled a basketball, or engaged in marshal arts, the stance and body position is similar to what is needed to hit moving targets with a shotgun(or rifle).

Your feet are no further spread apart than the width of your shoulders.

You angle your body to the center of the arc( where you expect to break the target!) of your targets so that your feet are a comfortable 40-45 degree angle to that center line.

Your left foot is a half step forward of your right foot, toward the target's path( reverse for LH shooters).

Your weight is forward on the balls of your feet.

For most people the forward knee is unlocked. The dominant foot becomes the "rudder" that shifts the body to one side or another in response to the movement of the target.

Some successful Skeet shooters unlock both knees and shoot from a slight "crouch"- particularly when facing the 90 miles per hour Clays thrown in Olympic competition. American Skeet machines are set to throw the clays at only 60 miles per hour.

In Skeet shooting, you know ahead of time the path the clay will fly off the machine, affected only by gusty winds. In Trap, the angle of the target can differ, both from the 5 different stations, and the movement of the Trap machine's arm across an 85 degree arc.

IN some Trap sports, " Bunker Trap" machines, and "Wabble Traps" not only traverse across that 85 degree arc, but also can move up and down thru a similar arc. You occasional will see these machines used on some Sporting Clays ranges.

Maximum flexibility in your stance is required to move on these harder-to-hit targets, but practice on these kinds of clay target machines can be the best "Practice" you can do for the more formal shotgun sports, as well as for hunting live birds. Think DOVE, a species that can turn on a dime, and give you 9 cents back in change! :shocked2:

There were NO SHOOTING COACHES at the clubs and ranges where I learned to shoot. I had to learn by first spotting the shooters who never seemed to "Miss" a target, and then watch them carefully to learn what they did differently than other shooters, and what I was doing. I made friends with good shooters( anyone better than me! :grin: ) and asked stupid questions.

As my hits increased and misses went down, other shooters began to compliment me- often because I was the first Left-Handed shooter they had seen( shooting LH guns) and hitting lots of targets. I observed, and watched the best shooters more, and adapted my stance to what I saw more than one of them doing. If it worked for me, I kept the technique; if it didn't, I tried to figure out why not, or find a technique that did work. I still credit two old friends- bot now dead-- for helping me pull my scores out of a slump with the simplest of comments based on what they saw me doing wrong. Both those men held State and National titles as champion trap shooters- the most common shotgun sport in this area of Illinois.

Both saw merit in training a good shooter to be competitive at their level, so that they would have another shooter make them shoot their best at both practice, and at competitive matches( ATA Registered Trap shoots). I out-scored both men only a couple of times, but was always honored to shoot against them ( and both were the first to congratulate me for beating them). Classy guys.

Both told me you only learn to be a better shooter if you shoot against Better shooters!! :shocked2: :hmm: :surrender: In their minds, shooting against poor shooters only teaches you bad habits. :shocked2: :( :idunno: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: I believe they are right. :thumbsup:
 
I have been shooting trap and hunting with muzzle loading shotguns since the middle sixties. I have found the best system fo me to use when shooting trap is to make premeasured charges. I make my powder charges out of wax paper rolled around a dowel rod and tied off with kite string. I make my shot charges out of three thicknesses of news print. I roll the news print around a dowel rod( for my 12 gauge I use a .650 rod but a 5/8 will work ), tie off one end. Fill with shoot twist and fold over the end and tie off. When shooting I open the powder charge, dump the powder down, insert the wax paper after. Place two 1/4 felt or leather wads in and ram down. Then I place the shot charge in , folded end last and ram down. I don't use an over shot card. The folded end is enough. This system allows for rapid loading and gives good patterns. For my 12 gauges I use 1%1/8 ounce shot and 75 grain FF. I have found that heavier paper tends to "slug" the shot, lighter paper doesn't hold together. Newspaper is cheap (free after reading ) and works well. :idunno:
 
Thanks, this is what I was trying to figure out. It sounds like I need to get my pattern established, (burn more powder :grin: ) then load some preloads to practice with at the skeet range. Do you have any photos of your pre loads, I think I understand, but like they say "a picture is worth a thousand words.
 
Thanks Paul, I was pretty much 99% wrong on everything Friday. It is no wonder I missed, this is what I needed to know before I went. My brother in law says he has a skeet thrower, maybe I can practice with his machine after I pattern my gun for skeet range before I go back to the range.
 
How familiar are you with smoothbore load development? I apologise if I'm belabouring the familiar, but remember
a) that you tend to want a faster-opening pattern for skeet than you do for trap, and
b) the old adage that (within limits) in unchoked guns, increasing powder tends to open patterns and decreasing it tends to tighten them, the limits being blown and/or inconsistent patterns on one extreme, and poor penetration & long leads on the other.

In a 20ga, I'd likely start with 1oz - 1.1/8oz shot charges and equal volumes of powder (2.1/2 - 2.3/4dr) and try going up in powder, but probably not much more than 1/2dr, and see what the pattens tell me. I'd also be tempted to try some #8 or #8.5 shot.

BTW, that old adage is NOT necessarily the case with choked guns, as the dynamics of the shot charge are much different with even a modest amount of choke, and they tend to do better in general with more powder than unchoked guns.

Good luck,
Joel
 
I find that the easiest way to get a sense of leading a skeet target is to practice on the incomers at the corner stations. It gives one plenty of time to get the gun in front of the target and feel for a sustained lead of a foot or so. Then move on to the incomers at station 2 and 6, with about a two foot lead. You should be able to get some success and have some fun on those targets. (Then you can expand some to the harder leads and the pass through targets.)

Personally, I find that the hardest aspect of shooting skeet (well, wing-shooting in general) with a muzzle loader is getting enough practice to stay in form. This means that Paul's suggestion, to learn with a modern gun, is a very good idea.

I would also recommend light loads of small shot, depending some on the weight of your gun. If you notice the recoil, your load is too heavy (IMHO). I use 3/4 ounce of 8.5 and about 65 grs of FFg in both my 20 and my 12's, which is a lot lighter than most of the loads suggested here (those guns are around 6 to 7 lbs). On the other hand, if your gun weighs over 8 pounds, the load will be less of a problem.
 
GreenMt said:
I would also recommend light loads of small shot, depending some on the weight of your gun. If you notice the recoil, your load is too heavy (IMHO). I use 3/4 ounce of 8.5 and about 65 grs of FFg in both my 20 and my 12's, which is a lot lighter than most of the loads suggested here (those guns are around 6 to 7 lbs). On the other hand, if your gun weighs over 8 pounds, the load will be less of a problem.
I don't disagree with you. Certainly, this is an individual thing. Both of my doubles (12ga cartridge and 16ga flinter) weight in at about 7lbs even and are comfortable FOR ME with normal 1oz & 1.1/8oz loads, and even moderate-velocity 1.1/4oz loads (though probably not for a full round of any clays, and hard to find in cartridges). I was also considering his original request concerning loads with #7 (#7.5??) shot; going to smaller shot would allow smaller shot charges with adequate pattern density.

Regards,
Joel
 
Joel/Calgary said:
GreenMt said:
I would also recommend light loads of small shot, depending some on the weight of your gun. If you notice the recoil, your load is too heavy (IMHO). I use 3/4 ounce of 8.5 and about 65 grs of FFg in both my 20 and my 12's, which is a lot lighter than most of the loads suggested here (those guns are around 6 to 7 lbs). On the other hand, if your gun weighs over 8 pounds, the load will be less of a problem.
I don't disagree with you. Certainly, this is an individual thing. Both of my doubles (12ga cartridge and 16ga flinter) weight in at about 7lbs even and are comfortable FOR ME with normal 1oz & 1.1/8oz loads, and even moderate-velocity 1.1/4oz loads (though probably not for a full round of any clays, and hard to find in cartridges). I was also considering his original request concerning loads with #7 (#7.5??) shot; going to smaller shot would allow smaller shot charges with adequate pattern density.

Regards,
Joel

Thanks for a nice post and constructive discussion. I certainly wouldn't disagree with you. When I shot a lot of cartridge guns at various clays, I was interested to see that as I evolved from 1 1/8 to 7/8 loads my scores went up (not what I had expected), and that I was noticeably quicker on my second shot.

My intent was to not discourage experimenting with lighter loads. 8.5 shot helps a lot with that, as you note.
 
For my skeet shooting, I pour 1 oz of #9 shot in a 32ga. shot shell hull and cover with a 28ga hull. On the field, separate the hulls pour the shot, stuff empties together and store in my shooting vest.

As for the powder (70gr 3F), I have small polypropylene (plastic) tubes with a snap-on cap.

This way I can load from my vest while on the field. I use a carpenter's apron for the wads.

I shoot with the breech loader guys and I can keep up and shoot my singles as long as there are 3 other shooters. I shoot the doubles in the next round.

For waterfowl hunting I use 16ga and 12ga hulls for the shot. My 12ga are Fiocchi's since they can be found in different colors (use for different loads).
 
That is similar to what I do, although I have a bag with a shot snake on the strap. I shoot two shots at each station usually starting with single and then doubles, sometimes on the crossing targets as well. At one club I can pretty well keep up at 5 Stand, as there are usually novice shooters involved.
 

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