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Smashing flints

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Hello all. I am very new to the forum. Have spent hours here and there reading about Flintlocks. I am not new to muzzleloading but I am new to flintlock. I was given a traditions Kentucky. The previous owner put a tvm lock on it. It's seems to be striking the frizzen at a good angle the spring tension seems good. 3.1 lb on the frizzen and 9.6 on the cock. Numbers courtesy of my fish scale. The flint strikes about 3/4 up the frizzen and slides completely down the face ending about center of the pan. The flints measure 5/8x3/4. The problem I'm having is the flint is getting smashed, I only get 5-7 shots before the top cock jaw contacts the frizzen. What is going on here?
Any ideas would help
 
Geometry of the strike is off. Your flint is hitting it too directly and is smashing the tip of the flint. The flint needs to slice down the frizzen from the time it strikes it. A longer flint will just make it worse. Flipping it over might make it work because it may hit the frizzen at a different angle. The real trick is to get the flint to strike the frizzen at the point of contact at about a 55° to 61° angle. If it does that it will slice a lot of sparks off the face of the frizzen and last a very long time - sometimes over 100 strikes.

This is a very much a "Goldilocks" type of situation, so feel free to experiment with it a bit. If the point of your flint hits it at too low of an angle it will smash the edge of the flint or break it. If it is a too high of an angle, when it hits the frizzen it will knock a big chunk of flint off of the bottom of the flint. It knocks that off because it's literally slapping the top of the flint onto the frizzen instead of having the tip of the flint scrape along it.

Unfortunately the lock on those Traditions longrifles are really small - pistol locks really. My first longrifle was a Traditions Pennsylvania longrifle and it had that same small lock using that 5/8" flint. You may end up needing to get the square 5/8" flints to get the flint back enough to increase the angle. It usually strikes the frizzen closer to 1/2 the way down the face of the frizzen instead of 1/4 of the way down.
60°Angle.gif

From what you are saying I would expect that you need to slide the flint back in the jaws to get a steeper angle on the strike. If you're using leather to hold your flint in the jaws, you may need to put a notch in the middle of the leather so you can slide it farther back against the jaw screw. To do that, take you piece of leather; fold it in half; and then cut a V notch out of the middle of the folded over part with your knife. That will allow the flint to slide beck further if you need it to.

Once again, this is a bit of the goldilocks effect, too little of an angle=smashed tip of the flint; too much of an angle will knock a big flake out of the bottom of your flint. Just right and the flint will be self sharpening and seem to almost never wear out. Use whatever that last angle turns out to be on your lock. When you find that exact angle on yours, get a good look at it or even sketch and put it in your shooting bag or box. Refer to it as needed.

One of the other drawbacks on that lock is that the pan is very small and can be pretty picky how full you fill it to get it to reliably ignite the main charge. Mine worked best when I filled it about 1/2 full, closed the frizzen and then holding the rifle by its wrist I would quickly twist my wrist with a snapping motion to the right.

That would actually bank the powder in the pan away from the flash hole in the barrel leaving a little empty space close to the barrel. Theory is that left an empty flash channel on that small pan for the flash to travel into and through the vent. Whatever it was, my Traditions longrifle went of first time every time as long as I did that. Certainly, where the flash hole is located in relation to the pan has something to do with that and that location on Traditions rifles doesn't seem to be too standard.

The lock on my other longrifle is a L&R Queen Anne lock and it has a pan that is easily 3 or 4 times the size of the Traditions pan. It doesn't care at all how much or how little powder you put in it, or whether it is banked to the right or not. It just goes off first time every time, all the time.

Hope that helps.
 
L&R make a replacement for Tradition, so that's maybe what lock you have, and they use a 3/4x5/8 flint.TVM uses L&R and Siler locks.
Is your flint getting smashed hitting the Pan or the Frizzen?
If you can post a few photos ,that may be helpful to see it in the cocked and uncocked position.
 
Hello all. I am very new to the forum. Have spent hours here and there reading about Flintlocks. I am not new to muzzleloading but I am new to flintlock. I was given a traditions Kentucky. The previous owner put a tvm lock on it. It's seems to be striking the frizzen at a good angle the spring tension seems good. 3.1 lb on the frizzen and 9.6 on the cock. Numbers courtesy of my fish scale. The flint strikes about 3/4 up the frizzen and slides completely down the face ending about center of the pan. The flints measure 5/8x3/4. The problem I'm having is the flint is getting smashed, I only get 5-7 shots before the top cock jaw contacts the frizzen. What is going on here?
Any ideas would help
Your frizzen may not be flipping open easily enough. Might need oil on the pivot screw, or some polishing of the toe of the frizzen where it rubs on the frizzen spring.
 
Thank you all.
Dgracia, thank you for that, I have had a few people tell me it needs to change but nobody could tell me what I should be trying to achieve. Unfortunately I can't post pictures because I am an incredible simpleton, I only have this cell phone, the camera was damaged and no longer works. I'm sitting at Tim Hortons right now using WiFi because I don't have data or internet at home. Il try the tooth pick, moving the flint back, I have flipped it over.
 
Range report.
I moved the flint back by cutting a hole in the leather, that made no noticeable difference. I put a toothpick under the back of the flint made it to 15 shots before the stone was unusable. Tried a match stick and broke the flint cleanly off at the jaws on shot 3. One thing I am noticing though, the more I shoot this gun the more I dislike the crescent shape of the buttock.
 
I reached out to the previous owner of my rifle who did confirm he bought the L&R lock from Track of the wolf. Not a TVM even if they are the same I don't have enough knowledge to argue it.
Does anybody else have this or similar problems with this particular lock.
Gvilleddie, that tidbit of info regarding "proper form" made itself surprising clear, maybe even painfully clear with shot #1. I'm not a purist and I don't even play one on tv, I'm only going to poke myself so much then something will get changed.
 
I purchased an L&R RPL lock for my Lyman flinter from L&R. The best thing you can do is send your lock to Cabin Creek Muzzleloading near York, Pa. and have Brad or Shane Emig tune it for about $125. They did a fantastic job on mine and I still have the same flint in after 30 shots. Don't send your lock FedEx! They lost my original being sent to Cabin Creek. Use the USPS with tracking and insurance .
 
I reached out to the previous owner of my rifle who did confirm he bought the L&R lock from Track of the wolf. Not a TVM even if they are the same I don't have enough knowledge to argue it.
Does anybody else have this or similar problems with this particular lock.
Gvilleddie, that tidbit of info regarding "proper form" made itself surprising clear, maybe even painfully clear with shot #1. I'm not a purist and I don't even play one on tv, I'm only going to poke myself so much then something will get changed.
I too dislike crescent buttplates despite being fully aware of how they are meant to be used. I cut the top of a brass crescent buttplate off and smoothed it flat to make it more usable for me. But back to your lock conundrum: you want the angle of the flint striking the frizzen to be similar to using a knife to shave wood from a stick. It should not hit, but rather scrape.

Also, your flint may be trash. It may not be a good flint, or one that was well knapped. A subpar flint may shatter either from being flawed or from your original problem of it hitting at a poor angle. Flints come in all shaped and sizes though, and with a wide selection of different flints before you, you may be able to find one that suits and then build your flint supply around that size.
 
Cattywompuss, the manure flint did cross my mind, for the better part of this morning iv been smashing and measuring things in my basement. Some flint has to tall of a nub on top allowing the top jaw to contact the frizzen before the flint. The flint is to short to use at 5/8" long. It almost appears that the cock pivot is to close to everything to even have the ability to strike at the previously mentioned 55ish degree angle. I ground a flint nub very thin in-order to Knapp it shorter trying to create the right angles. The cock screw hit the frizzen and the frizzen no longer flips out of the way.
 
Cattywompuss, the manure flint did cross my mind, for the better part of this morning iv been smashing and measuring things in my basement. Some flint has to tall of a nub on top allowing the top jaw to contact the frizzen before the flint. The flint is to short to use at 5/8" long. It almost appears that the cock pivot is to close to everything to even have the ability to strike at the previously mentioned 55ish degree angle. I ground a flint nub very thin in-order to Knapp it shorter trying to create the right angles. The cock screw hit the frizzen and the frizzen no longer flips out of the way.
It sounds like your lock needs some tuning and love. To my knowledge L and R has never made a product that just plain didn't work. I am not an L and R expert though. You may want to go back to the first answer you got here though and use a significantly longer flint. Anyone with a rock-lock will need a lot of flints anyway so you may want to order an assortment from 1" down and see what results you get. I think this is why many here refer to flintlocks as an art as much as a science. Flintlock are fickle and fiddly snobs, unless you have a large caliber gun with a big old colonial or military style lock.
 
How wide can I go. My frizzen is .715 wide. I have 1.025" from the cock screw to the frizzen at halfcock following the approximate angle of the flint.
 
No wider than your frizzen. Whatever sizes you try make sure the corner edge of the flint closest to the barrel does not extend over far enough that it hits the barrel when it comes down. Install the flint and slowly lower the hammer down with your thumb to be sure contact with the barrel is not made.
 

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