Shoulder Stocked Pistol...

Discussion in 'U.S. Muzzleloader Hunting Regulations' started by Loyalist Dave, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. Oct 7, 2019 #1

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

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    I've noticed that the Howdah, which does come with a version with rifled barrels, AND a combination of one barrel rifled, one smoothbore, has a detachable should stock option.

    The 1855 Springfield Pistol had a detachable shoulder stock, and I was thinking of maybe modifying a flintlock .58 Harper's Ferry Pistol repro to accept a detachable shoulder stock OR getting a Pedersoli Bounty (16" .50 cal barrel) and building a custom detachable shoulder stock...

    Then I wondered if the DNR would then consider any of those a shoulder fired muzzle loader, and expect heavier loads in them just as the rifles are required to have....

    The problem with my State (alright there are many) is that you can't get definitive answers from the DNR and they are not held liable (or you're not held harmless) if they give you bum-scoop.

    LD
     
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  2. Oct 7, 2019 #2

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

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    Maryland "Department of Natural Resources?" Yes?
    You've probably learned that legal advice when things that go "bang" are concerned is not acquired best on the interwebs... One could simply call one or another, erm, "public servant?" at the DNR, yes? Bum scoop or no, perhaps they could refer you to the relevant legalese and you could figure out what it all implies or portends?

    In Texas, as you may know, these muzzle stuffer front-end loaders are not considered firearms.
     
  3. Oct 7, 2019 #3

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

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    One could simply call one or another, erm, "public servant?" at the DNR, yes? Bum scoop or no, perhaps they could refer you to the relevant legalese and you could figure out what it all implies or portends?

    Nope... Which is what I meant when I wrote, "The problem with my State (alright there are many) is that you can't get definitive answers from the DNR and they are not held liable (or you're not held harmless) if they give you bum-scoop"

    In Texas, as you may know, these muzzle stuffer front-end loaders are not considered firearms

    They aren't here either..., but if it's a BP pistol in Deer season, it has a minimum load of 40 grains of powder...IF it's a rifle or smooth bore, the minimum load is 60 grains. IF it's a pistol with a shoulder stock ?????

    LD
     
  4. Oct 8, 2019 #4

    DaveC

    DaveC

    DaveC

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    If you think you can dispatch a deer humanely with a pistol and 40 grains of powder, then hats off to ya, and that's what I would do with said pistol... I mean an extra 20 grains of powder in a barrel that short is just going to create a bigger muzzle flash and cloud of smoke, no? :confused:
     
  5. Oct 10, 2019 #5

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

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    For years 40 grains in a 44 caliber with a round ball was the legal minimum for deer with a rifle in Pennsylvania. I shoot 50 grains in my Springfield carbine, under a 570 patched round ball. A 44-40 was considered an all round cartridge for a century including for deer.


    Here in Pennsylvania we have no definition of what constitutes a pistol or rifle. It is sort of left to the feds definitions. The problem arises when muzzle loaders are neither fish not fowl. We have a part of the state where muzzle loader pistols are not legal for hunting. So is an 1855 Springfield pistol carbine a pistol or rifle when the shoulder stock is attached. A few years back, I had a traditions buckhunter pistol with a nondetachable shoulder stock that was installed and the pistol grip removed. So was it a shoulder stocked pistol, or a short barreled rifle? Out Game Commission waffled dramatically on where cap and ball pistols fell into things. At first they were muzzleloaders and subject to minimum caliber restrictions. Two weeks later they were not muzzle loader and not centerfire, so maybe not legal at all, and then a couple months after that it was said they are centerfire and legal as centerfire handguns. The answer you get could depend on the firearms knowledge, or lack of it, possessed by the person who answers the phone at the Game Commission. I always kept a 1970's tin of percussion caps with me when I carried my cap and ball revolver for hunting. The caps were clearly labeled by Remington as "centerfire" on the tin. I figure Remington and UMC knew a heck of a lot more about firearms than any one at the Commission. How are they going to come up with an believable expert who will contradict what Remington says on the label.
     
  6. Oct 13, 2019 #6

    bud in pa

    bud in pa

    bud in pa

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    I would like to know where the Game Commission gets it's info from. When they instituted the 40 caliber max restriction for small game I called them to find out why they instituted it. All the person on the other end of the phone would say to me was that there were people shooting squirrels with 50 cal. rifles. I asked him what he knew about exterior ballistics, and again he replied that people were shooting squirrels with 50 cal. rifles. I guess a 50 cal. muzzleloader is the equivalent to a mountain Howitzer, according to the PA game commission. Why are those in government in charge of something mostly ignorant about the subject?
     
  7. Oct 14, 2019 #7

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    One good reason they limit the caliber that a person can use for hunting small game is, often the small game season is going before or after the big game season is open.
    Poachers, using guns suitable for hunting big game will say to the game officer, "No. I'm just hunting squirrels ossifier." and, if it is legal to use these bigger bored guns the officer has no choice except to accept the explanation.

    I know this isn't a very good reason for the law but I also know there are people who would do just what I described.
     
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  8. Oct 14, 2019 #8

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

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    Pa permits a properly licensed deer hunter to shoot a coyote during deer season, if the weapon is also proper for deer. Our flint only season after Christmas coincides with squirrel season. For decades a flint deer hunter could use his 45 or 50 caliber flintlock to pop a squirrel if he got bored. Restricting the max caliber to 40 for small game makes sense for strictly small game hunters, but excludes those legally hunting deer from shooting a squirrel. (Archers do not have to make such a choice and can hunt either.) Some at the Game Commission tried to claim, it would be dangerous for folks to hunt squirrels with a 50 caliber, yet they permit 50 caliber muzzle loaders to be used in the most populous areas of the state around Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. (even unmentionables) We also have the irrational restriction that centerfires for small game must be 23 caliber and under. A 220 Swift that carries 7 miles is ok for squirrel, but a 32-20 that would be going some to carry a mile or two, is not legal. A 40 caliber muzzleloader with a maxi bullet is ok for small game. It makes no sense.
     

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