Should I reach out to builder or adjust at home? Gap between lock and barrel

[SDSmlf]

I went back amd looked at the photos again
I see the name but no way can I read it. Even zoomed in still can't make it out. Why doesn't someone just mention it?

Name is obvious if you have seen it before. The maker has both fans and non-fans here, unfortunately a hit or miss affair from samples I have seen. Name the maker and a nasty war of words will ensue between the two camps and the thread will quickly be locked.

The builder is going to take it back and look at it. Will keep folks posted. Appreciating that I really know nothing about flintlocks (learned a lot here), is there anything else I should point out aside from the sight and lock inletting?

As far as what to point out to the builder, I would email a numbered list of concerns with photographs to the builder based on your observations and those items pointed out in this thread, guess you could call it a punch list. The builder’s response to each numbered item will let you know where you stand.

 

[oldwood]

For the price you paid , you shouldn't have to work on the rifle, or fix obvious problems.

 

[SOLANCO]

I have mixed emotions on this next step you are recommending. I think the builder should have a chance to make it right before getting called out. Yet it never should have left either. I do agree with you as I stated in my earlier post, I just hate to go straight to condemnation without an opportunity to make it right. We had that on here before, builder got called out before he was even contacted to make it right. I felt that was wrong and I stated so. In the end though a full blown accounting should be communicated with final outcome. Good, bad, positive, negative with names so folks can make an informed decision when they want to do the same.

Sorry, but I don't think so. He had the opportunity to make it right when you paid him to do it. It says something about him when he did not do it right the first time.
How would you feel if he was your doctor? Your surgeon? Your plumber? Your electrician? Your car mechanic?

 

[jfaldo]

Name is obvious if you have seen it before. The maker has both fans and non-fans here, unfortunately a hit or miss affair from samples I have seen. I

"Saw it right off". I would never purchase another one.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I had an issue with the same builder/outfit, actually multiple. My example was poorly made as well and wasn’t made to what I ordered.

I found the guys who’s name is on the barrel was a total condescending jerk on the phone.

Never again.

 

[elkhorne]

I purchased a Fowler from a member on another forum that sold the gun as a shooter. He said it was built by an individual who was an experienced builder but was deceased. When I received the gun, it had a large crack in the wrist/top of the lock inlet. I communicated with the seller and he had no remorse! I repaired the crack and then discovered the trigger incorrectly fit to the sear, fixed that and thought I was done! Well found lock had never been fired with a flint in it? As no markets but had a top jaw screw bent from hitting something! That means the Fowler was never fired or used! Also discovered a very sloppy breech inlet and will glass bed that to finally be able to test fire this gun! This all, with this situation, shows there are some real dishonest people starting to frequent these forums and take advantage of trusting members. The names of these muzzleloading criminals need to be outed to protect all of our membership. Sort of like a judicial system putting a pedophile in a neighborhood in America and not letting any of the resident families know what kind of animal has be transplanted among them.

 

[elkhorne]

I had an issue with the same builder/outfit, actually multiple. My example was poorly made as well and wasn’t made to what I ordered.

I found the guys who’s name is on the barrel was a total condescending jerk on the phone.

Never again.

Smokey Plainsman, if this is a personal not a forum message, I a, curious if this builder from the OP is the same that sold me my Fowler. I realize rules prevent the truth coming out to protect the membership thanks

 

[jdw276]

Sorry, but I don't think so. He had the opportunity to make it right when you paid him to do it. It says something about him when he did not do it right the first time.
How would you feel if he was your doctor? Your surgeon? Your plumber? Your electrician? Your car mechanic?

I guess I would say I do not want to pay twice for the same work. Fix it for me. I am not as familiar with the custom builder market like many of the comments. The builder may have a history so he now has a chance or offered to make it right. Name him. He is aware of the issue. Make it an open communication for all to be a part of. We all will learn from it. Last time I recall the builder was named before he knew there was a problem. That is where it is not fair to me. If this is a one person shop, things should not slip through. If it is more of a production shop, things slip through. Again I am not familiar with the builder like it seems most are.

 

[FlinterNick]

The kit supplier?

 

[Ralph Wainright]

Why would anyone recommend the OP fixes this. He paid for a correctly finished product and obviously got a piece of garbage instead. This builder has been called out so many times they should be out of business by now. If the one I received from them were anywhere near that bad I would of requested a full refund. Hopefully you paid on a credit card then you can get your money back and then send them that pile of junk back.

I'm no expert but there seems to be enough questions on this gun that One More won't hurt. Could it be that the tang and barrel were not properly aligned thus creating the gap on the lock.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Name is obvious if you have seen it before. The maker has both fans and non-fans here, unfortunately a hit or miss affair from samples I have seen. Name the maker and a nasty war of words will ensue between the two camps and the thread will quickly be locked.


As far as what to point out to the builder, I would email a numbered list of concerns with photographs to the builder based on your observations and those items pointed out in this thread, guess you could call it a punch list. The builder’s response to each numbered item will let you know where you stand.

Well I've not seen it before. Why mention him as a builder whose known here then if he's not known to everyone. Seems as though people are covering for this clown if nobody is willing to say his name, and others are going to get burned by not knowing who this jackarse is!

This is why I will never have a gun built for me. I'd rather do it myself. I may not be a professional, but have built three flintlocks that I am proud of and I know who built them, and I know they work. They're not perfect, but they're certainly built better than the one shown in this thread. And I spent a lot less money on them too.

 

[sturmkatze]

Snarkus-know-it-all-acus. Ugh. Let him deal with the builder.

 

[FlinterNick]

You’ve got to do your research carefully before selecting a builder.

Ask around, ask for demo’s, a project showcase, you need logical reasons to choose a builder. I would even set up a meeting with the person, ask about their shop, do they have a full shop.

Ask if they will disclose mistakes and corrections etc.

Spending 3-4 K$ on a custom rifle demands trust and verification and transparency.

With the way this rifle was assembled i doubt there is any specimens out there that are not flawed.

I made the mistake of choosing someone once without doing any good research, what i had shipped back to me was a pile of garbage, my heart sank, i had to part out the kit and sell it, the only salvageable part was the barrel, thankfully.

 

[Joemolf]

I hate to be so blunt and forward, but this rifle is a lemon.
Why send it back to the builder who boned it in the first place? Find someone better qualified to fix it, or fix it yourself. The original builder was well aware of his mistakes. You don't make something and not be keenly aware of your mistakes. Probably got frustrated with it and at some point threw his hands up and just said good enough.

Don’t spend another dime return it! I recently had an issue with a rifle that the builder used bondo to support the butt plate. Other than that and the stock was greenish (wet) so when it finally dried out the butt cracked. They had every excuse under the sun! Even admitted 3 gun sent to Nevada came back a year later that shrunk badly! Don’t spend a dime trying to fix it. My guy wanted $1500 to restock it. Shipping on me another 200 round trip. Send it back and get a full refund that is horrible work! Very poor mind you $2400 is not much today for a custom gun. Real builders charge real money. Sending it back and spending another $1500 or more to restock is insane. Should have been right Buy a Kimbler and build your own im sure you will do a better job. Don’t throw good money after bad. No offense I would not have paid 2400 for the rifle shown. Look at TOTW flinters for sale. They have some nice rifles and you get a 10 day inspection. You are too nice! I regret not giving up the folks who sold me my rifle after all is said and done. Though it is beautiful in comparison to yours ; we paid the same they just used wet wood and bondo. Return it!

 

[Joemolf]

The builder is going to take it back and look at it. Will keep folks posted. Appreciating that I really know nothing about flintlocks (learned a lot here), is there anything else I should point out aside from the sight and lock inletting?

Someone mentioned something about the trigger for example and as-cast parts. It sounds like a file / sandpaper should have been taken to the wood at the base of the barrel, behind the lock, which is uneven and proud reaching beyond the base of the barrel. Maybe that’s it or one aspect along the way.

Get your money back and build a kimber! You will have a beautiful flint lock rifle and money in the bank k!

 

[SDSmlf]

Kimber, Kimber, Kimber….. great guns, but what if not what the OP desires? Kimber has limited options. So back into that shark infested custom gunmaker market. The builder of the OP’s gun has many fans who love their guns. No question. The builder also has what appears to be a train reck of customers who are not happy. Just the way it is. Unfortunately, consistency is not one of the builder’s strong points. Debated here more than once, but little help to the OP. Custom gunmakers like Mike Brooks for example, who would build whatever the customer wanted, had a five year wait five years ago as he was ‘ramping’ down. Today, I don’t know his prices or delivery. There are also a few builders on this forum who would do a wonderful job on a custom gun, just comes down to price and delivery time.

The OP is returning his gun to the builder. Let’s see how things play out. There are always those surprise happy endings that many dream about.

 

[FlinterNick]

Don’t spend another dime return it! I recently had an issue with a rifle that the builder used bondo to support the butt plate. Other than that and the stock was greenish (wet) so when it finally dried out the butt cracked. They had every excuse under the sun! Even admitted 3 gun sent to Nevada came back a year later that shrunk badly! Don’t spend a dime trying to fix it. My guy wanted $1500 to restock it. Shipping on me another 200 round trip. Send it back and get a full refund that is horrible work! Very poor mind you $2400 is not much today for a custom gun. Real builders charge real money. Sending it back and spending another $1500 or more to restock is insane. Should have been right Buy a Kimbler and build your own im sure you will do a better job. Don’t throw good money after bad. No offense I would not have paid 2400 for the rifle shown. Look at TOTW flinters for sale. They have some nice rifles and you get a 10 day inspection. You are too nice! I regret not giving up the folks who sold me my rifle after all is said and done. Though it is beautiful in comparison to yours ; we paid the same they just used wet wood and bondo. Return it!

How do you go about getting your money back from a custom builder? Most of these guys are not business men, there are no written contracts etc. You’re working on good faith. I’ve had heard stories of people sending work back to Kit Ravensheer and Leonard Day, with zero resolution, and those guys were AAA class builders as well as businessmen. It all boils down to the good rapport you develop with a builder. Personally I would not have made a fuss about it on a public forum, I would have kept it confidential, the buyer is already at a loss.

Learn and move on from it, this why I build my own.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Everyone makes mistakes even the old masters you can find mistakes on the rifles they made. The sign of a true master is how good they are at hiding the mistakes. Personally I would never pay for something I have never seen, Thats why I make my own guns. Given all the things that have been pointed out I don't see this as something that is simple to fix on a finished rifle. Some of the problems can be fixed but attempts to fix others will create new problems. Comes down to what is the OP willing to accept because the only way to correct all the problems is to re-stock it.

 

[mikesto44]

Ok lets get this straight....its not Kimber, kimmer or anything else....!!! It's Kibler Longrifles geez give the guy his just do....

 

[sturmkatze]

Kimber, Kimber, Kimber….. great guns, but what if not what the OP desires? Kimber has limited options. So back into that shark infested custom gunmaker market. The builder of the OP’s gun has many fans who love their guns. No question. The builder also has what appears to be a train reck of customers who are not happy. Just the way it is. Unfortunately, consistency is not one of the builder’s strong points. Debated here more than once, but little help to the OP. Custom gunmakers like Mike Brooks for example, who would build whatever the customer wanted, had a five year wait five years ago as he was ‘ramping’ down. Today, I don’t know his prices or delivery. There are also a few builders on this forum who would do a wonderful job on a custom gun, just comes down to price and delivery time.

The OP is returning his gun to the builder. Let’s see how things play out. There are always those surprise happy endings that many dream about.

Kimber? Do be they make flintlocks? It, perhaps thee means Kibler?