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Shots going way off point of aim

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Scorpmann3518

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Something is seriously wrong with my gun. Apparently it had more issues than I realized. Might be why I got it so cheap. Went to site it in and we used a rest as well. It was solidly planted. The shots were flying all over the target from the point of aim. As in 8-10 inches off. Varied the powder charge,checked everything, moved closer to the target. Still doing it. Also myself and 2 other people noticed a bit of resistance about 8 inches down the bore when loading. Only in that one place then the loading got easy again.

Using .530 Round ball and .18 pillow ticking. Nice snug fit. The muzzle looks fine. Dont see any damage. Wondering of the rifling is more worn out than I noticed. Personally its hard for me to tell since I dont know how shallow it was supposed to be to begain with on that model.

T/C Reneagde in in .54
 

Loyalist Dave

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Lots of other variables. First did you drop a light down the barrel and actually look at the rifling? If not a light, you can cover a 9mm spent casing with the shinny side of tin foil, drop that down the bore, and shine a light down from the muzzle and the reflection back will work well for you to inspect the barrel.

If the bore isn't pitted, then you may want to polish it to remove the "rough spot" you get on loading. If it is heavily pitted that will probably be your problem, and you may want to consider turning the barrel into a "smooth rifle".

Have you checked your patches, and are they cut or blown? If very light pitting has occurred, it might be damaging the patches on loading, so you get no consistency in ball flight. You might want to "load" and then use a ball discharger and check the patch.

Have you "miked" the barrel and checked the measurements? I have seen a neglected barrel cleaned up with a stainless brush on the end of steel rod used in a power drill used to clean up a barrel, followed by lapping compound to polish it up inside..., looked great but shot like snot until the new owner figured out the rifling was too shallow due to the cleaning and lapping.

Check the crown of the barrel. You wouldn't be the first guy who got a bunged up crown from a factory gun, and this too will cause inaccuracy, but often the inaccuracy is consistent..., they all fly "way right" or "way low" etc. I have seen over zealous cleaning of a bp barrel with a metal or nylon rod mess up the crown of a barrel, and in that case you can get really random flights.

What is the source of your round ball? Are they all the same weight? I knew a fellow once who had very good looking cast ball..., but all had small air pockets, and they flew like knuckleballs.

LD
 

58 Caliber

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My 54 renegade likes .535 balls with a .015 patch and 90 grains of FFG Goex. I assume when you say .18 patch you mean .018. If I recall it did not like the .530 balls but that could be memory failure. Good luck.

Dave
 

Scorpmann3518

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Yes .018 patches. Havn't found one yet after shooting them. As far as I can see down the barrel its just a little on the darker side. Main ball I have been using is Hornady. They are averaging 222 grains with a couple that were at 223 grains. It was just the flying off 8-10 inches high,low,left and right that surprised me.
I'll have to get a bore light and take a really good look and having it bored out was a thought. Just doesn't look like I'll be hunting with it this year.
 

Rifleman1776

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First, understand, this is a strange game. Lot of unexpected things can affect accuracy and performance.
Example: I used my wife's target rifle one time at our club shoot. I could hardly get a ball down the bore, had to pound. Very puzzling. Made for a bad day.
At home, I scrubbed completely but still have problems.
Later while mixing up a new batch of cleaning solution I decided to read the label on the new bottle of Murphy's Oil Soap I had just purchased.
On the back, at the bottom, in very tiny print was a statement this was not traditional MOS but a synthetic floor finish.
I was coating the bore with a poly/plastic finish. :shocked2: :doh:
After chemical, steel wool and strong words applied, I got the bore back to proper condition.
Not saying your problem is similar, just an example of the stars not being alignment at the right time.
Do get a bore lite, scrub the :cursing: out of the bore and try again. Let us know what happens.
 

Scorpmann3518

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I will. Either way if it's not fixable I'm not out a lot. Paid 150 for it and put another 50 into it plus some spare time making it look nice. Worse case I have a nice wall hanger. Glad I actually used the bench to check it. Before I was out plinking at closer ranges and it seemed to be hitting fine. Wouldnt want to hunt with it throwing rounds all over. I am starting to wonder if the rifling isnt gummed up to a degree that isnt out right obvious. Will have to take a trip later and get a couple items to do some work on it tonight. Including a bore light.
Was actually thinking if it's not correctable just saving up til next year and buying a nice flintlock or as was mentioned turning it into a smooth bore.
 

Scorpmann3518

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Forgot to ask what would be a good solution to scrub it with? Have steel wool a plenty and a bronze bore brush.
 

CoyoteJoe

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A good scrubbing with the bronze brush may be a good start but be careful, those brushes have a way of coming apart in the bore and then you have a whole new problem. I'm inclined to think a previous owner may have shot some conicals or perhaps sabots which have created a build-up of lead or plastic. There are various chemical concoctions on the market which claim to remove lead but it pretty much comes down to elbow grease. Tight patches with a mild abrasive like IOSSO bore cleaner or Flitz semichrome and lots of work will clean it. For a really serious build-up I have nothing against medium steel wool, don't worry about harming the rifling with steel wool, you'll wear out your elbows long before you harm the rifle.
 

Scorpmann3518

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Makes sense that if the coating built up fairly evenly it would be extremely difficuly to see with the eye. I didn't think th rifling was worn out. Heard that is rather difficult to do with a muzzle loader.
 

Matt85

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before using steel wool i would try normal tight fitting patches with IOSSO bore cleaner on em. really scrub the barrel with this stuff.

-Matt
 

Scorpmann3518

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Just a thought. Since I was feeling resistance at one point is it possible any pitting there or build up in that area is causing the patch and ball to seperate when I fire so the ball is basicly bouncing out the muzzle? Also remembered on the last couple shots the ball didnt want to see the last inch on the breach end. Did that last time but after cleaning it was fine so I assume that was just fouling. I hope.
 

Vaino

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Green "Scotchbrite" run down the bore worked for me....a dozen strokes w/o withdrawing it from the bore. W/ what you describe, cut or frazzeled patches are usually the culprit. Have you checked the patches? Also the chamfer at the muzzle..is it nick free?.....Fred
 

Scorpmann3518

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The chamfer looks good. Last 2 times I shot it I havn't recovered a single patch. No idea where they are going. I shoot in my father in laws back pasture which is mowed once a week so I would assume I could find them. Have a lot of those green pads so I'm in luck there.
 

mooman76

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Try coloring some patches with florescent marker. May make them easier to find. I've heard in rare cases of changing lube helping allot. What are you using and are you swabing between shots?
 

Scorpmann3518

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I did swab once between shots this last time. Didnt seem to make any differance. Still had the issue of the ball not seating the last inch. Accuracy was gone from the first shot with a clean barrel. Was using a crisco/beeswax mix. Seemed ok but until I did a spit patch just because and loading was super easy that time so the lube needs to be changed. Pillow ticking tasts horrid. I mean could that be an issue? I used to buy prelubed patches way back when I shot.
 

nchawkeye

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I've never gotten good accuracy without having patches that didn't burn through, really need to find them...Spread a tarp in front of your barrel to catch them...

Lots of reasons patches burn through, rough bore, patching that isn't linen or cotton, bad lube, etc...

btw...You aren't using 777 are you??? This burns hotter than Goex or Pyrodex and can burn patches up...

What's your powder type and charge???
 

Scorpmann3518

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No, Pyrodex RS is all I can get at the moment. If I can fix this issue I'll buy several pounds of the real stuff in a couple months when my budget isnt going elsewhere. Been using .530 Ball and .018 patch with 80 grains. Tried higher and it did the same thing. Not any worse.

Just got back from buying a bore light. Rifling looks good all the way down. Don't see any pitting. Possibly some gunk in the rifling part way down. Have to swab it out first to make sure its not lube.
 

Scorpmann3518

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Don't know what was caked in the rifling but after a good scrub with steel wool and the pad (Which actually worked really good)then water to clean it out I can see the lands and grooves very clearly and there is pitting about the area I was having issues and upwards. Can't tell how far down but after running several tight patches through they came out clean and no damage that I can see. No clue what the previous owner was firing out of it to gum it up so bad that it looked like the rifling was super shallow.
 

Zonie

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Take someone with you when you shoot the next time.

When you fire a shot, their only job is to watch where the patches (or pieces of them) land and to keep track of them.

After firing several shots, collect the fired patches and examine them.

Until you examine the shot patches, you are just guessing what the problem is.

Take several different patches with you so you can try different materials and thicknesses.

Also, try several different patch lubes including a vegetable oil or olive oil and maybe some Crisco.

If the shot patches are torn to shreds or are burned thru, try a different lube.
Don't forget to try some spit on the patch too.
It works surprisingly well.

The outside edges of your fired patches can be torn and frayed badly and this is OK as long as the area where the ball was sealed against the bore doesn't have cuts, tears or burned thru areas.

The center of the patch can be slightly burned too but the contact area must be in good condition for the gun to shoot accurately.
 

majg1234

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Zonie is right on with his advice about patches and "reading" them.Another option is to put one or more patches or felt wads over the powder.This may move the ball and patch above the rough spot you have/saw if you must use the barrel.I bet you are having blown or torn up patches and that is the problem,good luck :hatsoff:
 
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