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Shot my new SMR today.....Need advice

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Joined
Nov 26, 2017
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Location
Northwest Arkansas
First of all, my new Kibler gun shoots lights out. At least at 25yds with 40gns of fffg. Thing shoots in the same hole if I can see good enough to do it! I have some concerns though that are just gnawing at me. This is my first experience with a flintlock so I am hoping that the fixes are simple. First of all, my flints don't seem long enough to work consistently. I bought the TOW 5/8 x 3/4 English flints on a recommendation. When I have it in the jaws on half cock, I can't seem to get it close enough to the frizzen and still have enough in the cock to tighten down on. Secondly, all of a sudden, my hammer won't stay cocked sometimes. I don't want to shoot it until I get this ironed out. After I cleaned it, I put it back in the gun and it does this now. It started it while I was shooting and I messed with the little set trigger screw and it seemed to work better after that. Any ideas on these problems will be a huge help!!
 
Ok, I did a quick search on it not staying cocked. It will not stay cocked even with the set trigger set so could it be the sear arm is too long? When I cock it, I can push the frizzen down and it will come uncocked. I read where taking 1/32 off of the sear arm may help. I am going to look for some interference in the mortise in a bit also.
 
Do you mean if you push the cock forward, it will fall forward? Yeah...definetly want to sort that out!! "After messing with the set trigger screw" might be a big clue. !!! Yeah...sear arm could be touching wood. But I'd want to verify that before cutting or grinding anything down. Sorry but I'm not familiar with firearm you are talking about. ?? SMR? What caliber? I've not heard of Kibler, but I don't get out much. :) Oh well, more knowledgeable minds than mine will help you out.

There's no real absolute distance the flint needs to be from the frizzen when at half cock. There are general guidelines but each lock is an individual. None of my guns seem to care, give or take a 1/8" or so, more or less, less or more, as to how far the flint is from the frizzen, at half cock. Sometimes if the cock doesn't have much throw, you want it further back, long throw maybe closer. Something is going on if you have to set the flint as far forward you describe. ?? Are you trying to get it almost touching the frizzen at half cock? How does it spark when you have it set in the jaws normally? And what is "close enough"? Close enough for what??? :)

Okay...looking forward to more info and other's comments on this. Good luck.
 
This is my first flintlock so Im flying blind here so go easy. Its a Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle. I can only go by what I see or read here as I have no experience as in what works or don't work according to the flint position in the jaws. I read somewhere that 1/16" at half cock is a good starting point. This seemed odd as it would have to be a flint over an inch long. When I looked at mine and I had 1/4" gap I got concerned. When I tried to fire the gun it would not throw the frizzen back so I started playing with the gap distance. At around 1/8" it would spark and throw the frizzen back most of the time. Any more gap than that and I have nothing for the jaws to hold on to. Im sure it is a simple fix for someone that has been through it but its apparently not for me.
 
Since Jim Kibler uses one of the best locks (Jim Chamber's Late Ketland) I don't think the lock is at issue. Due to his use of CNC stock profiling, I would think that the triggers are set properly set into the stock. Have you contacted Kibler for suggestions?

However, I would work from the easiest steps first to determine why your cock isn't holding at full cock. Remove the lock and verify that the sear engages the full cock notch correctly. The lock should be holding solidly while the lock is removed. Chambers' recommended flint size is 3/4 x 5/8. You may need a 3/4 x 3/4.

Now we have to take a look at the triggers. I would want to be sure that the set trigger screw is not lifting the trigger bar too high and that is interfering with the sear. The bolts pulling the triggers into the stock may be pulling the triggers too far into the stock.

Finally I would look to see if the sear is dragging on wood in the stock mortise. Use some sort of marking material on the tip of the sear. Install the lock and look for marks in the sear recess. If there are any marks then you can remove some material from the tip of the sear.
 
Yeah, what Grenadier said. Seems like if the problem started after turning the set trigger screw, you might want to back that off first. I have a Chambers lock on my Jeager, I believe counter clockwise backs it off/heavier trigger pull, clockwise for lighter pull. I'm not positive, but I ain't messing with mine to find out. !!! :)

Make sure the bolts holding the lock to/into the stock are not real tight. Just snug. Make sure any bolts involved with the lock or triggers are not overly tight.

Grenadier, would it not be better to remove some wood, from inside the mortise, rather than metal off the sear-bar? Did you really mean the tip of the sear?? Or the bar?

Was going easy, that's what all the happy faces are about. :) Trust me, I feel your pain.

Although 3/4" flints work fine in my Chambers lock, that's a pretty short flint. Just picking through some of my flints here on the desk, most of my rifle flints are at least 7/8" long, and many are 1". The few that are 3/4", are indeed pretty tiny. I know my lock will take a pretty big flint, even some of my undersized Musket flints. So yeah, I'd get some much longer flints pronto...probably one inch long minimum. What you describe is interesting, because although I strive to get my flint almost touching the frizzen at half cock, it's really not fussy about that.

Make sure the frizzen is free to travel, no bolts too tight that might be binding it up. Lube where it rubs on the spring, and the axle or knuckle joint that it pivots on.

Very interested to see how this turns out, especially not that we are talking about a Chambers Lock. Keep us informed, and again good luck. I was expecting many more replies by now.
 
THAT SET TRIGGER SCREW CAN GIVE YOU A HAIR TRIGGER AND IF ADJUSTED A TAD MORE WON'T LET THE RIFLE STAY COCKED. PLAY WITH THIS TINY ITEM TILL YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS.

YOU DON'T WANT IT ET AS A HAIR TRIGGER WHILE HUNTNG AS THE RIFLE IS APT TO FIRE AT THELEAST TOUCH..

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

First of all, my new Kibler gun shoots lights out. At least at 25yds with 40gns of fffg. Thing shoots in the same hole if I can see good enough to do it! I have some concerns though that are just gnawing at me. This is my first experience with a flintlock so I am hoping that the fixes are simple. First of all, my flints don't seem long enough to work consistently. I bought the TOW 5/8 x 3/4 English flints on a recommendation. When I have it in the jaws on half cock, I can't seem to get it close enough to the frizzen and still have enough in the cock to tighten down on. Secondly, all of a sudden, my hammer won't stay cocked sometimes. I don't want to shoot it until I get this ironed out. After I cleaned it, I put it back in the gun and it does this now. It started it while I was shooting and I messed with the little set trigger screw and it seemed to work better after that. Any ideas on these problems will be a huge help!!
 
Yes, I meant to take off material from the sear bar that makes contact with the trigger lever. In most cases the bar is longer than is needed so as long as the bar extends past the trigger lever, there should be no problem. Of course a bit of wood can be removed.

In any event something is raising the trigger lever enough to interfere with the sear bar. As a general troubleshooting practice, I have learned to look at the last thing I have changed as a first step in solving the problem.

Probably the first step should have been backing the set trigger screw out some more.

Second, the problems started after you had cleaned the rifle and reassembled it. Perhaps the lock bolts are too tight and the sear bar is binding in the lock mortise.
 
I think we may have it figured out. I talked to a nice lady at Jim's shop this morning and have a new sear spring coming. Something was going on that it wasn't providing the pressure to force the sear into the full cock notch. With the lock out of the gun I could apply finger pressure on the bar and it would go in fully with a nice audible click. The spring by itself wasnt providing enough pressure to fully engage. I won't tell you what happened when I tried to gently massage the sear spring open just a pinch:confused::mad:. Hopefully Im shooting it again this week. As for the flints, I am going to try and get some longer ones also.
 
I think we may have it figured out. I talked to a nice lady at Jim's shop this morning and have a new sear spring coming. Something was going on that it wasn't providing the pressure to force the sear into the full cock notch. With the lock out of the gun I could apply finger pressure on the bar and it would go in fully with a nice audible click. The spring by itself wasnt providing enough pressure to fully engage. I won't tell you what happened when I tried to gently massage the sear spring open just a pinch:confused::mad:. Hopefully Im shooting it again this week. As for the flints, I am going to try and get some longer ones also.

Sounds like the bridle and or sear pivot screw are over tightened.
 
The late Ketland on my rifle won't put any reasonable flint just off the frizzen face; it has to do with the locks longer throw. A longer flint will help. As far as not staying cocked properly, I had that problem with my .40. I ended up removing a tiny bit of wood from the mortise and the problem was cured.
 
I have the early colonial lock, must be quite different, or a little different from the Ketland. Yes, what Tom Compton said, but I'm sure that was checked before ordering a new spring. ??? :)
 
Yes, I did indeed check that out. I tried one screw, loose or tight, then the other, then both together. Whether loose or tight I could not get it to catch. It would just not move the sear far enough to catch the notch, it made it to the angled part of the little fly and that was it. Unless I held pressure on the sear bar with my finger. The lady I spoke with asked me to check the notch and the sear for damage but there was none there. I will remain hopeful that the new spring will fix it. I just can't see where it won't after studying how the things work together. I should know tomorrow, had to air it to me due to the holiday.
Thanks Hanshi for your reply. I will sure check that tomorrow if the new spring don't help.
 
The lock is unfortunately,one thing Mr Kibler doesn't have control over. Variations in assembly can effect the final position of the sea bar. All locks need some attention as produced.
That being said, stuff can happen.
Is the sear bar moving freely? That will tell about the bridle/sear contact.
A classic Ketland and some fine tuning, make for a fine lock.
 
There was some friction with the sear screw and the sear hole itself. When the sear moved the screw head would turn. I put some 1800 grit paste on the screw and turned it in the hole until it turned freely. The sear ran nice and smooth afterwards with no slop on the screw throat. This was the only friction that I could see. I will address it more if I need to after I try the new sear spring.
 
I found it interesting that Chambers called for the 5/8 × 3/4 flint and Track called for the 3/4 sized flint. It pays to measure from the jaw screw to the frozen face at half cock to get a length and the width of the frozen to get the width.

Sometimes you just have to measure what you have at hand. These locks just aren't an exact build.
 
For sure, if you buy a dozen flints, not many, if any will be the exact size as advertised. It's more of a "general" or "close enough" measurement. Going through my flint pile again, most of my rifle flints, that are the right size for my lock, are an inch, or a little over, some (or one at least) like 1&1/8th long. Only a few are under an inch on length. On width, most are 7/8ths. I don't remember what size I ordered those flints as, but it sounds to me like you need something more like 1"X7/8"s. ?? Or longer if possible. On width, any more than 7/8's requires off-setting the flint, which I don't like to do. Looks dumb...but functional I suppose.

Still surprised that Ketland is so fussy. Pulled my Jeager out of the safe this morning just to check where I set the flint last, because of this discussion, and there's almost a 1/4" gap...but it sparks like a fireworks display. I like to get the flint close to the frizzen, but really I set them in more on how the jaws get the best grip on the flint. Depending on the flint, that can be close to, or further from the frizzen. In my gun/lock, the flint being secured tightly in the jaw is more important than the distance from the frizzen, for getting a good spark.
 

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