short arbor

[Bunk]

an explanation

and why it is important
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[TDM]

Very informative video. Thanks for posting.

 

[45D]

While I don't necessarily agree with his explanation, the "fix" with a set screw is definitely NOT going to be a permanent one. If this is who I think it is, he used to add material to the end of the arbor but maybe that got too labor intensive. Anyway, I drew up a quick diagram of the "set screw" fix and a single "full contact spacer". It's easy to see the difference in the "transmission" of energy.

The contact or "transmission" pathway for the top "fix" gets reduced to the size of the set screw. The end of the set screw contacts the barrel assy in a small ring . . . and THAT is the linear connection of the arbor to the bbl assy.

The lower spacer "fix" allows full end contact of the arbor to the spacer which has a rounded contact area to meet the bbl assy for a much larger transmission surface along with a metalized epoxy which fills the void under the spacer. This allows maximum transmission area for a true fix which is why heavy loads as a steady diet are absolutely no problem. That includes cartridge conversions.

Oh, the set screw in the spacer setup is purely for wedge placement adjustment and as I've said before, thumb pressure ( or 2 thumbs) won't be enough to "marry" the two assemblies.

Thanks for the video Bunk!!

Mike

 

[springfield art]

an explanation

and why it is important
Respectfully
Bunk

Again, I just don't know why the freakin' FACTORY makes them this way! Thanks for the video!

 

[Stantheman86]

Pietta, who was previously the Taurus of the repro black powder world, has suddenly raised their game and has properly fitted arbors , while Uberti has yet to be able to achieve this

 

[45D]

Pietta, who was previously the Taurus of the repro black powder world, has suddenly raised their game and has properly fitted arbors , while Uberti has yet to be able to achieve this

Yeah but their action parts suck!! Lol
Uberti would have 4 platforms to "fix" whereas Pietta is a "one trick pony".

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

I own a bunch of Piettas but not trying to be a troll, I buy them solely as range blasters, things to tinker with , and to otherwise treat like I wouldn't treat my Ubertis .

They make good "defarbing " fodder to play around with

2 of my Pietta hammer cams went soft after only a few hundred rounds. I popped in new hammers last night and they work. Hopefully they keep working .

 

[Mike in FL]

I finally understand the short Arbor problem. I'm now rethinking about getting a Uberti, and I definitely won't buy a Pietta. Rats. I reckon Ill have to stay not historically correct by staying with my cartridge Rugers.

 

[springfield art]

Pietta's are ship-shape nowadays. They upped their game like Taurus did.

 

[springfield art]

A Cockney boat pilot crashed into the dock, and when asked what happened, he stated," Oy! It's a short 'arbor, sir!"

 

[Mike in FL]

Pietta's are ship-shape nowadays. They upped their game like Taurus did.

U mean they don't have the short Arbor thing?

 

[dickydalton]

U mean they don't have the short Arbor thing?

That is correct.

 

[45D]

U mean they don't have the short Arbor thing?

Which (amazingly) is why so many posts have been posted for a DIY fix !! ( the main reason for the diagram above). It's an easy fix to make a most excellent revolver!!!! Pietta fixed the arbor length but they have "other" problems.
Pick your poison . . .
Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

I just got done shooting 4 of my Piettas, 2 I just fixed with new parts.

On one the hand is too long and needs some fitting but that's not Piettas fault. I put a new hammer in to replace one that had a soft cam , which is Piettas fault

On the two Pietta .44's I just fired, one needs the hammer wiped off every 2 cylinders or so because it rubs on the frame from being too tightly fitted , and fouling exacerbates the issue. It will break in, no big deal. It's a $220 gun, I don't expect a Colt Python. It needs some fluff and buff. I used it to blast a paper bad guy at the range and it succeeded at this , and I burned up some old Pyrodex in the process.

Piettas will usually need some break in or a little work out of the box but not always. The new ones are better, my Dance & Brother revolver is really well fitted and needed nothing done with it.

All of my Ubertis, I have 8 now including the 3 2nd Gen Colts, are perfectly timed and my London Navy I've had since 2007, and it has 1000s of rounds through it. It's broken in like an old baseball glove and it's nice and slick.

The short arbor can be fixed, if someone is worried about it. You won't really have any issues with it in something like a Uberti .36 Navy shooting 20gr mouse fart target loads but the Dragoons and Walkers need it addressed if you're shooting the loads they're made to shoot or the gun will beat itself to death eventually.

The guns are made to a price point, if we want $350 Uberti 1860 Armies we're going to have to deal with a short arbor. If we wanted them fitted as well as a genuine period Colt then they'd be $6-700 and less people would buy them. Uberti and Pietta know that 75% of the people who buy these will rarely shoot them and the 25% of us who do will just work them to make them function better.

The average buyer of a repro percussion revolver thinks of them as novelties or toys, and doesn't worry about stuff like short arbors because they shoot 50 rounds a year through it. YouTube guys like Mike Bellivue and others are increasing the popularity of cap and ballers though and manufacturers have to step up their game to meet customer demands. Or they'll have a YouTuber trashing the guns to their 600k followers

 

[45D]

I just got done shooting 4 of my Piettas, 2 I just fixed with new parts.

On one the hand is too long and needs some fitting but that's not Piettas fault. I put a new hammer in to replace one that had a soft cam , which is Piettas fault

On the two Pietta .44's I just fired, one needs the hammer wiped off every 2 cylinders or so because it rubs on the frame from being too tightly fitted , and fouling exacerbates the issue. It will break in, no big deal. It's a $220 gun, I don't expect a Colt Python. It needs some fluff and buff. I used it to blast a paper bad guy at the range and it succeeded at this , and I burned up some old Pyrodex in the process.

Piettas will usually need some break in or a little work out of the box but not always. The new ones are better, my Dance & Brother revolver is really well fitted and needed nothing done with it.

All of my Ubertis, I have 8 now including the 3 2nd Gen Colts, are perfectly timed and my London Navy I've had since 2007, and it has 1000s of rounds through it. It's broken in like an old baseball glove and it's nice and slick.

The short arbor can be fixed, if someone is worried about it. You won't really have any issues with it in something like a Uberti .36 Navy shooting 20gr mouse fart target loads but the Dragoons and Walkers need it addressed if you're shooting the loads they're made to shoot or the gun will beat itself to death eventually.

The guns are made to a price point, if we want $350 Uberti 1860 Armies we're going to have to deal with a short arbor. If we wanted them fitted as well as a genuine period Colt then they'd be $6-700 and less people would buy them. Uberti and Pietta know that 75% of the people who buy these will rarely shoot them and the 25% of us who do will just work them to make them function better.

The average buyer of a repro percussion revolver thinks of them as novelties or toys, and doesn't worry about stuff like short arbors because they shoot 50 rounds a year through it. YouTube guys like Mike Bellivue and others are increasing the popularity of cap and ballers though and manufacturers have to step up their game to meet customer demands. Or they'll have a YouTuber trashing the guns to their 600k followers

Ok, here's what a "tuner" takes from reading your post.
- All hands need to be fitted so that's the "norm". Cams get chewed up from over sprung bolt springs combined with bad interface (fitting) of surfaces.

- hammer slot needs clearancing. You can fix it in a few minutes or put up with it till it "self clearances" which will probably be quite a while.
- just a $220.00 revolver = not worth expense of correcting = not much expectation. The thing here is ALL revolvers pass the $220.00 mark somewhere along the build process. These revolvers are basically functional at this point but, they can be taken so much further with proper fitting / timing / springing that they will perform equally with any $1500 - $2,000 custom revolver.

- I've never handled a new SA revolver that DIDN'T need some type of correction.
"Break in" is usually bad fit being allowed to wear bad ( it'll fix itself).

- Again, no SA has ever shown up here (including NITB) that didn't need tuning. 2nd Gen Colt's have been some of the worst. Hard to believe any one person would have 8 with perfect timing . . . I do believe in miracles though . . . 8 !! Are you sure ?!!

Finely, fixing short arbors isn't JUST for removing "self-destruction" probability, it's just as important for having the same revolver each time it's assembled! A wedge in just to the point of "not binding the cylinder" isn't under correct tension. If it was, it would bind the cylinder!! Friction from being driven in ( not with a sledgehammer) is correct ( you can feel it).

This isn't intended as negative at all, just a tuners perspective on the things posted here which are the same ( at one time or another) as on some other forums.
From a tuners perspective, if the same amount was spent on the revolver to make it "the best example that revolver could be", you may have half the number of revolvers but your great grandkids could shoot them!!

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Ok, here's what a "tuner" takes from reading your post.
- All hands need to be fitted so that's the "norm". Cams get chewed up from over sprung bolt springs combined with bad interface (fitting) of surfaces.

- hammer slot needs clearancing. You can fix it in a few minutes or put up with it till it "self clearances" which will probably be quite a while.
- just a $220.00 revolver = not worth expense of correcting = not much expectation. The thing here is ALL revolvers pass the $220.00 mark somewhere along the build process. These revolvers are basically functional at this point but, they can be taken so much further with proper fitting / timing / springing that they will perform equally with any $1500 - $2,000 custom revolver.

- I've never handled a new SA revolver that DIDN'T need some type of correction.
"Break in" is usually bad fit being allowed to wear bad ( it'll fix itself).

- Again, no SA has ever shown up here (including NITB) that didn't need tuning. 2nd Gen Colt's have been some of the worst. Hard to believe any one person would have 8 with perfect timing . . . I do believe in miracles though . . . 8 !! Are you sure ?!!

Finely, fixing short arbors isn't JUST for removing "self-destruction" probability, it's just as important for having the same revolver each time it's assembled! A wedge in just to the point of "not binding the cylinder" isn't under correct tension. If it was, it would bind the cylinder!! Friction from being driven in ( not with a sledgehammer) is correct ( you can feel it).

This isn't intended as negative at all, just a tuners perspective on the things posted here which are the same ( at one time or another) as on some other forums.
From a tuners perspective, if the same amount was spent on the revolver to make it "the best example that revolver could be", you may have half the number of revolvers but your great grandkids could shoot them!!

Mike

Hold the presses......I just got my 240 buck Pietta 1851 Navy today.....and it has.....a short arbor

When the wedge is tapped all the way in, it sticks out way too far to the right and the forcing cone is against the cylinder face.......

I'm really not too worried about this one, I bought it along with a plain cylinder to make an Augusta Machine Works lookalike just for fun. So I'll just shoot it as is. It's otherwise a beautiful gun with good timing and a nice action

Maybe I'll send it to you for a Goonerizing

All 8 of my Ubertis drop the bolt right into the leade or in the case of the Walkers and 1st Model Dragoon, right before the stop notch. Maybe I'll retract that, my Pocket Navy drops the bolt a little early. Carry up is good on them all, no hand binding or throw by.

However , I also got a Pietta .44 Navy and the hand is a little long, it locks up right at the very end of the hammer arc , on one chamber you really have to firmly pull back the hammer to where you're pressing the hammer against the frame . Or could it be the grip frame is fitted too tight to the hammer?

 

[SDSmlf]

Personally would not rely on any Uberti or Pietta cap and ball revolver in any serious social situation. When I was shooting cap and ball revolvers in SASS I rarely got 200 rounds through any Pietta or Uberti without a component wearing or breaking to the point where the gun was down and needing some tweaking, whether tuned or not. Take any of the Italian made traditional design revolvers and try putting 1000 rounds through it as fast as you can pull the trigger and report back. Not talking about casually shooting paper targets, but repeatedly dumping cylinders in a few seconds. Would be interested to know how many shots you get before a mechanical breakdown, jamb or fail to fire.

Interesting that when shooting the modern designed Rugers, they would run multiple thousands of rounds with nothing more than proper cleaning between shooting sessions. And with no tweaking, just as received from Ruger. Guess it’s not fair to compare Rugers to a traditional design of modern manufacture, though just for giggles I have at least 20 of them. Love the look and feel, but the performance…..

 

[Stantheman86]

Personally would not rely on any Uberti or Pietta cap and ball revolver in any serious social situation. When I was shooting cap and ball revolvers in SASS I rarely got 200 rounds through any Pietta or Uberti without a component wearing or breaking to the point where the gun was down and needing some tweaking, whether tuned or not. Take any of the Italian made traditional design revolvers and try putting 1000 rounds through it as fast as you can pull the trigger and report back. Not talking about casually shooting paper targets, but repeatedly dumping cylinders in a few seconds. Would be interested to know how many shots you get before a mechanical breakdown, jamb or fail to fire.

Interesting that when shooting the modern designed Rugers, they would run multiple thousands of rounds with nothing more than proper cleaning between shooting sessions. And with no tweaking, just as received from Ruger. Guess it’s not fair to compare Rugers to a traditional design of modern manufacture, though just for giggles I have at least 20 of them. Love the look and feel, but the performance…..

I have a bunch of Ruger single actions, they're tanks

The original Colt percussion revolvers were prone to break stuff too, just probably not as often because they were well fitted

Technology advanced, I'm sure in 100 years people will wonder how guys like us used primitive M16s in combat

I've got a few 1000 through my Uberti London Navy but I've had it for almost 15 years , nothing has broken yet but I don't speed shoot or crank the hammer on it like CAS shooters do

 

[Stantheman86]

I had a failure to fire today, two caps popped on the same chamber, no boom....I ran a nipple pick into the powder and recapped, and it went off. We're working with 1830's technology, it's lots of fun but it's obvious why anyone who bet their life on a gun and the military moved to cartridge revolvers and rifles as fast as possible. People still used them if they had to or just didn't care to upgrade but for the most part, cartridges were a huge leap forward.

Just like the revolver was high tech in the 1830s because it beat a single shot pistol

 

[45D]

Personally would not rely on any Uberti or Pietta cap and ball revolver in any serious social situation. When I was shooting cap and ball revolvers in SASS I rarely got 200 rounds through any Pietta or Uberti without a component wearing or breaking to the point where the gun was down and needing some tweaking, whether tuned or not. Take any of the Italian made traditional design revolvers and try putting 1000 rounds through it as fast as you can pull the trigger and report back. Not talking about casually shooting paper targets, but repeatedly dumping cylinders in a few seconds. Would be interested to know how many shots you get before a mechanical breakdown, jamb or fail to fire.

Interesting that when shooting the modern designed Rugers, they would run multiple thousands of rounds with nothing more than proper cleaning between shooting sessions. And with no tweaking, just as received from Ruger. Guess it’s not fair to compare Rugers to a traditional design of modern manufacture, though just for giggles I have at least 20 of them. Love the look and feel, but the performance…..

SD, this is exactly the reason for tuning / rebuilding from the get go . . . otherwise you'll do it piece by piece!!
These revolvers can be made to run with the Rugers all day long and come out on top!! Heck, I can even set up the Ruger's so they can keep up!!

Mike