Short and light

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

William O.

54 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
108
Location
New Braunfels, Texas
OP...nobody has asked the average distance you take a shot?

I have a 28” barreled Wilson Chiefs trade gun (.62 cal smooth with a rear sight) that I can group inside the palm of my hand at 60 yards. It weighs 5.75 pounds.

80 grains of 3F makes meat out of deer and big Texas hogs.

That said I like rifles better. 2” groups at 75 make me happier. A 30” .58 would be very handy and light.

I have a Pedersoli Kentucky (percussion) in .50 with a 15/16” barrel that is 38” long and it’s very easy to carry.

Should be plenty of options for you and plenty of power at 26” for 75 yard and in shooting.
Good advice. I've shot smoothbore's that where every bit as accurate as some rifles within 50 yards and if you practice then depending on the conditions where you will be hunting, 75 yards is well within range. You can get a semi custom rifle, "in the white" which requires you to sand & stain the stock and also blue or brown the metal yourself (or leave it to patina naturally). That way you can get a stock made specifically for your particular measurements, the type of wood you want and the caliber and length of barrel. It should be within your stated budget.
 

JL

32 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
40
Location
NE WA
OP, I live in the West but fly "home" to hunt in New England, usually in tailing-post rut. It's "Benoit" style. I did a Pedersoli flintlock kit as my first and it's a fine shooter, shoulders quickly, and is light. It's not the shortest thing you'd be able to locate but if you did it yourself, you could probably add some cast etc... to really get your desired fit. If I remember correctly, there's not a ton to work w/ but some. As suggested, may be an option for you and one I'd recommend. Nice deer and photo!
 

M. De Land

75 Cal.
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
6,091
Reaction score
600
This is my first post here been lurking/reading for a while but I’m having a lot of trouble finding what I’m looking for.

I hunt the Adirondack mountains in New York. I never sit in a stand and walk all day. I want to kill a buck with a flintlock still hunting or tracking on snow. I’ve Hunted with a flintlock a few times in Pennsylvania with a borrowed modern flintlock and it was fun but not what I’m looking for.
I want a short barreled light weight gun. It’s common for me to walk 8-10 miles a day so it will be carried a lot and shot a little. I think I want a single trigger because it seems like it would be faster and less hassle for close range hunting when things happen quick. How short can I go with the barrel? I need it to balance well when carried 1 handed but want it as compact as possible for getting through the thick stuff. I don’t want anything fancy or shiny. I’m also left handed so I’m sure that limits my options.

I appreciate any and all insight!
I would look for a Hopkin and Allen Buggy Rifle in .45 caliber. I had one for many years and finally made a match rifle with a new barrel out of it.
They came with a 20 inch barrel , are one of the most reliable percussion designs available and weighs maybe five pounds. Don't think for a minute that a 130 grain round ball won't kill a deer or bear cleanly because it will. A maxi ball really ups the killing power.
These are underhammer guns and are especially well suited for bad weather muzzle loading.
The actions can still be had and a rifle could be made by you for less than 600.00 I would think just buying the parts you need. The butt stock and fore arm are simple and rugged in design and function very well.
If you build your own you could go up to 50 or 54 cal for no more money.
 
Last edited:

Kmcmichael

36 Cl.
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
57
Reaction score
44
My style of hunting is tracking. Walk until you find a large enough buck track then follow the track until you kill him or you run out of daylight. I know deer can be killed when sitting but it’s not my style.
If we don’t have snow I’m walking looking for deer sign to go back to when we get snow and try to find a track.

this is my buck from last year, I shot him in his bed 13 gps miles after I cut his track.
success cannot be argued with.
 

Capnball

45 Cal.
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Messages
679
Reaction score
581
Location
Maryland
Welcome to the board !

If you can find one, both Traditions & Lyman flinchlocks came with a 24" bbl - about as short as you can get in a factory rifle.

The Traditions rifle is billed as an "Ultralight"
Love everything about the Lyman rifles. Good looking without being fufu, shoot straight, dependably. Maintainable whether you want to make your own parts of just call the dealer for a replacement. It's the best part of modern (specifications and tolerances) without the Buck Rogers look. Weight? It is a tad heavy but that's the trade off with a good rifle in a short configuration. I like a heavy gun so it's not a problem for me. Also I don't hunt so I'm not humping the gun through the bush all day. I'm going to participate in a woods walk this year (corona disaster permitting) but I'll carry my Pedersoli .45 Flinchlock. If and when I aquire a Lyman Great Plains in .54 percussion, I'll set it up for distance bench shooting.
Lyman:


Traditions:
 

longcruise

70 Cal.
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
5,672
Reaction score
650
He wants flintlock, left hand, light and id say adequate for the job.

To me, that's a 50 cal in a minimal ATF barrel about 24 to 30 inches. If I were building this gun it would be on a Leman full stock platform starting with a pre carve stock without a lock inlet or butt plate cut and cut to about 26 inches. Use a less radical butt plate than the typical Leman with LOP to suit the shooters stature. A simple single trigger. Maybe go with a hooked breech anf barrel keys for easy field maintenance. It wouldn't be HC by any stretch but perfectly PC to the to early 21st century. :)

With 75 years coming up 9n my ODO im tempted to do it for myself.
 

Belleville

32 Cal.
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
180
Reaction score
85
I may have once owned the type of rifle that you describe. It was an original German boar rifle. About .58 cal., very short, light weight, swamped barrel, walnut stocked with wooden patch-box, with a short length of pull, but very plain, i.e. utilitarian. Perhaps that is what you may want to research. A recently manufactured, good quality, left hand Siler lock would be a good match. I used Siler parts to convert the original lock back to flintlock and got the best re-conversion results, that I have ever made. The parts were an excellent match. If you can determine the best barrel twist for you, custom made barrels are really not all that expensive.

I have limited experience with the production made flintlock rifles, but some of their locks seem to me to have less than correct geometry and therefore not as reliable.
 

Ballshooter

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
123
Reaction score
151
Location
Washougal, Wa.
You could get the Traditions DeerHunter and cut down the barrel probably 5 to 6 inches recrown and move the front sight back you would have a really light packing carbine. Just a thought and my 2 cents.
 

Griz44Mag

69 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
3,295
Reaction score
2,529
Location
Republic of Texas, District of Krum
Suggestion on the long drag. get one of those roll up plastic type sleds, keep it rolled up and sling it with a rope over your shoulder they weigh next to nothing, then if you get a deer lash it to the sheet and easy drag snow or no snow. Since I hunt bye myself a good bit, the area I hunt I just let the deer lay and go get the truck drive in on the old logging road right to the deer, ( short drag to the edge of the trail) the problem is getting it in the bed of the truck, Shot a big 7 this past year had a hard time getting him in the truck bed. But I also have that figured out 1/2 sheet of plywood with some holes bored along the sides, and a come along, some rope, lay the deer on the plywood tie him fast lift the edge of the plywood on to the tail gate tie off the come along to the front inside of the truck bed and winch him in. I do not know if anyone has tried to wrestle a limp deer into the bed of a ford f-250 but let me tell you it aint a easy thing to accomplish. Kicked my butt. As too a short light gun I would suggest a .62 cal canoe gun preferably rifled I like the big bores, big holes and lots of blood loss equals quick kills and short tracking if needed. Never had one go over 50 yards. Mostly DRT if shot under 50 -75 yards.
I carry a gambril with a double pulley system in the truck for field cleaning. A couple of years ago I had to load a very heavy buck and I used it to help get the beast into the truck bed. The ranch I was on did not allow field dressing, they have facilities to do that at the lodge and a disposal pit at a remote location for the gut piles and throw aways. It helps keep the varmints in check by not feeding them. The ranch is a goat ranch and they don't a bunch of scavengers on the ranch.
As for a choice in short light guns, the Traditions Deerhunter would fit the requirement. It is available in cap or flint with a wood stock. New it is about 375 or 400 bucks. They are a ways from being a true repro of anything, but are light and rugged and darn good shooters.
 

Grenadier1758

Cannon
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
6,767
Reaction score
3,628
Location
St. Louis, MO
This is my first post here been lurking/reading for a while but I’m having a lot of trouble finding what I’m looking for.

I hunt the Adirondack mountains in New York. I never sit in a stand and walk all day. I want to kill a buck with a flintlock still hunting or tracking on snow. I’ve Hunted with a flintlock a few times in Pennsylvania with a borrowed modern flintlock and it was fun but not what I’m looking for.
I want a short barreled light weight gun. It’s common for me to walk 8-10 miles a day so it will be carried a lot and shot a little. I think I want a single trigger because it seems like it would be faster and less hassle for close range hunting when things happen quick. How short can I go with the barrel? I need it to balance well when carried 1 handed but want it as compact as possible for getting through the thick stuff. I don’t want anything fancy or shiny. I’m also left handed so I’m sure that limits my options.

I appreciate any and all insight!
Not sure how much you want to spend. Here is a very good selection for you to think about. The Caywood English Game Gun sounds like it might just be a good choice at 4 1/2 pounds with choices of the 6 barrels of interchangeability and it can be ordered as a left hand gun.

ENGLISH GAME GUN (caywoodguns.com)
 

longcruise

70 Cal.
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
5,672
Reaction score
650
I searched high and low for a Deerhunter in left hand for a granddaughter and there were none to be found.
 

SOLANCO

40 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
406
Reaction score
409
Location
Lancaster County, PA
An option for you could be a custom gun with an enormous amount of cast-off. That could let you shoot right handed but aim with your left eye. I have seen pictures of them. They're odd looking, but I guess they work.
Thanks Colonel I appreciate your thoughtfulness. But I blew the custom rifle budget with Cabin Creek ML and think I'd prefer what I am doing to shooting an ML that looked like it was made for Frankenstein.
And, to broaden my opportunities, I've purchased a cannon! No squinting with that baby! Won't be hunting with it, but at least I'll be shooting.
 

Walkingeagle

50 Cal.
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
1,215
Reaction score
1,243
Location
Alberta
Suggestion on the long drag. get one of those roll up plastic type sleds, keep it rolled up and sling it with a rope over your shoulder they weigh next to nothing, then if you get a deer lash it to the sheet and easy drag snow or no snow. Since I hunt bye myself a good bit, the area I hunt I just let the deer lay and go get the truck drive in on the old logging road right to the deer, ( short drag to the edge of the trail) the problem is getting it in the bed of the truck, Shot a big 7 this past year had a hard time getting him in the truck bed. But I also have that figured out 1/2 sheet of plywood with some holes bored along the sides, and a come along, some rope, lay the deer on the plywood tie him fast lift the edge of the plywood on to the tail gate tie off the come along to the front inside of the truck bed and winch him in. I do not know if anyone has tried to wrestle a limp deer into the bed of a ford f-250 but let me tell you it aint a easy thing to accomplish. Kicked my butt. As too a short light gun I would suggest a .62 cal canoe gun preferably rifled I like the big bores, big holes and lots of blood loss equals quick kills and short tracking if needed. Never had one go over 50 yards. Mostly DRT if shot under 50 -75 yards.
Fyi, loaded many large Alberta deer and a few moose by myself into the back of my pickup. Wasn’t too bad. My trick is to carry two ratchet straps in the vehicle. Obviously back the truck to the animal, open endgate and detach the support straps so the tailgate drops down to the bumper at a slight angle. Connect a ratchet strap to the tie-down lug at the base of the truck box up by the cab. Wrap other end around animals neck and take up as much slack as possible prior to ratcheting. Ratchet until the roller is full. Now use the second strap to the other side toe-down, pull out as much slack as possible and repeat the process. Once it’s roller is full go back to the first and pull to empty the roller, take up the slack and ratchet till full again. Keep working back and fourth till the animal is loaded.
Note: A moose has a long neck and you will not get it fully loaded with this system, but you will get the front shoulder to clear which then allows you to easily muscle the rear end in as well.
Ratchet straps are cheap, easy to carry in the truck and you should have them for tying things down anyhow.
Walk
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
229
Reaction score
173
Location
Johnstown Colorado
This is my first post here been lurking/reading for a while but I’m having a lot of trouble finding what I’m looking for.

I hunt the Adirondack mountains in New York. I never sit in a stand and walk all day. I want to kill a buck with a flintlock still hunting or tracking on snow. I’ve Hunted with a flintlock a few times in Pennsylvania with a borrowed modern flintlock and it was fun but not what I’m looking for.
I want a short barreled light weight gun. It’s common for me to walk 8-10 miles a day so it will be carried a lot and shot a little. I think I want a single trigger because it seems like it would be faster and less hassle for close range hunting when things happen quick. How short can I go with the barrel? I need it to balance well when carried 1 handed but want it as compact as possible for getting through the thick stuff. I don’t want anything fancy or shiny. I’m also left handed so I’m sure that limits my options.

I appreciate any and all insight!
I hunted for a time using an early CVA Frontier Rifle in .45 calibre. That gun was light, maneuverable and deadly accurate. I've never seen one as a flintlock, but Track sells an after market lock, and it wouldn’t be a problem to pull the bolster and replace it with a flash hole liner.
 

Col. Batguano

69 Cal.
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
4,414
Reaction score
629
No hunting with the cannon? P'shaw! Fiddle sticks! Take a read at www.buckstix.com . He hunts deer with a 12 Pound Mountain Howitzer. Feral cats with a 24 pound mortar. There's your short barreled guns for you!

C'mon. Live a little. Napoleon said it best; "only thunderbolts can be preferred to artillery".
 
Last edited:

Arkansawer

32 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
29
Reaction score
16
Location
Washington, Indiana
Col. Do you really think hunting a deer with a mountain Howitzer is practical ? Would it leave anything but bloody deer sausage ? about like hunting squirrel with a .69 rifle. Napoleon also said " Leave the artillerymen alone. They are an obstinate lot"
 

Col. Batguano

69 Cal.
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
4,414
Reaction score
629
Practical? Of COURSE not! But neither is hunting when it comes down to an economic calculation of; "dollars spent per pound of meat / what you spend in dollar and expense outlay plus time" vs,. what you could buy it for at the grocery store and what you would earn in the same amount of time at your job".

carried/dragged a little over 2 miles to a trail that I could get my truck down.

2 Miles?!! Wow!

Are you allowed to bone everything out on the spot, just carrying out "evidence of sex" of the deer? (With really big stuff like moose there really isn't any other alternative.) My (other) alternative (if faced with a 2-mile drag) would have been to build a campfire and start eating. A LOT!
 
Last edited:

TGJaeger

40 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
353
Reaction score
217
Buckmaster,

Welcome to the board! Glad to hear of another ”primitive” hunter. Just a word to the wise...this group will help you spend your money!

I truly understand what you are looking for. Took much the same path looking for a black timber elk rifle. Jim Chambers English Sporting Rifle was what I chose. Short, light, fast to the shoulder and kills with certainty. Can’t help with the southpaw thing but 3 out of 4 ain’t bad.

Heres a nice looking jaeger that can be l/h and in the white for under $2K. :K-13 Early Penn Germanic Jaeger
 
Last edited:
Top