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Shooting the Enfield' by David Minshall

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GregLaRoche

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I was told there was a lot of good information available in this writing by David Minshal. I have been searching for it here and on the internet, but can’t seem to find it. Can someone tell me where to look so I may read or even purchase it if it is for sale?
Thanks
 

TFoley

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I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but this extremely useful source of information really needs to be a sticky, along with proof marks of Italian and British firearms and the Parker-Hale production dates. The last subject has cropped up extensively over the last few weeks, and my writing fingers are getting just a teeny bit jaded going over the same subject time after time.
 

GregLaRoche

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It’s a great article. I read half last night and will probably finish the rest tonight. While searching for it, I came across The Story of the Creedmoore: the Irish-American Rifle Match of 1874 and ordered it. I think I remember reading that the Irish were still using muzzle loaders. Were they Enfields? I guess I’ll know more when I get the book.
Thanks to all for all the great information.
 

TFoley

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It’s a great article. I read half last night and will probably finish the rest tonight. While searching for it, I came across The Story of the Creedmoore: the Irish-American Rifle Match of 1874 and ordered it. I think I remember reading that the Irish were still using muzzle loaders. Were they Enfields? I guess I’ll know more when I get the book.
Thanks to all for all the great information.
No. Being principally military, and shooting the big fat Minié bullet, the Enfield was only ever used as a target rifle by the many Volunteer units that abounded in the late 1850's - 70's.

The Creedmoore rifles were built specifically for target shooting by. They were match rifles that were manufactured by John Rigby and Co., of Dublin. These rifles, along with the Gibbs-Metford, were the ultimate development of the muzzle-loading small-bore match rifle in the UK, and were superbly accurate.
 

Feltwad

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No. Being principally military, and shooting the big fat Minié bullet, the Enfield was only ever used as a target rifle by the many Volunteer units that abounded in the late 1850's - 70's.

The Creedmoore rifles were built specifically for target shooting by. They were match rifles that were manufactured by John Rigby and Co., of Dublin. These rifles, along with the Gibbs-Metford, were the ultimate development of the muzzle-loading small-bore match rifle in the UK, and were superbly accurate.
Image of the Irish Eight
Feltwad
P1010023.JPG
 

TFoley

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As Rudyard notes, - correctly, as it happens - the Metford-style bullets were .461.

Present-day replications of the Gibbs-Metford target rifles can be had from Pedersoli, Chiappa, and Uberti - there may be others, too. They all SEEM to have Metford-style very shallow groove rifling that works best with paper-patched bullets like these in my collection....this one is .451+ paper = .4525.

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TFoley

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You'll notice that in the photograph, Mr Thynne appears to be pointing his muzzle directly at the unfortunate Mr Ganly. Perhaps HE was the one who put his shots on the wrong target, costing the Irish team the match and eternal fame, rather than disappointment.
 

Rudyard

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Cheeky ? Not that cheeky I've shot on Stickledown MLAGB s shoot, with a military match'ML got up 'using surplus Martini barrel . & once tried to fire my Sharp'es Borchart wood panel with my 461 Number one Gibb,s Metford barrel for it . Re cut or re barrelled by Geo Gibb,s .Or tried to, It was so cold at the 400 yards the vasaline gummed up & the striker hadn't enough humph to fire the primer . That was another much colder day on Century . So it wasnt much of a guess .I find it dos 'nt do to appear knowledgable .lest you be decried as an' Expert'....' Student of arms' is Ok as it suggests your just learning And NO true expert would claim other .
Regards Rudyard
 

ResearchPress

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Present-day replications of the Gibbs-Metford target rifles can be had from Pedersoli, Chiappa, and Uberti - there may be others, too. They all SEEM to have Metford-style very shallow groove rifling ....
The only repro. of a Gibbs-Metford that I have seen (other than custom built) is the Pedersoli Gibbs, although even that is a marginally smaller bore than the originals and does not use Metford’s gain twist rifling. It’s more of a ’generic’ match rifle of the period but heavier. Fine rifles and I have won a lot of matches with mine. For an overview of long range muzzle loading rifles see: LRML: Rifles & Equipment.

Through the early 1860s in the UK, the target rifle evolved from one of military form (such as the Parker-Hale ’Volunteer’ or ‘Whitworth’ rifles, and similar by other makers), to one of highly specialised form, with half stock and no fitting for ram rod, pistol grip, and vernier adjustable aperture sights. The stock changes also enabled heavier barrels to be used, while keeping within the 10lb weight limit of the NRA(UK) Rules. Calibre was generally around .451 and these target rifles were often referred to as ‘small-bore’ to distinguish them from the large bore (.577) military rifles of the time.

David
 

GregLaRoche

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So at Creedmoore, the Irish most likely used paper patched bullets, how about the Americans ?
 

ResearchPress

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So at Creedmoore, the Irish most likely used paper patched bullets, how about the Americans ?
In the 1874 match between Ireland and USA, the Irish Team used muzzle-loading match rifles by Rigby. The American team used breech loaders and were evenly split between Remington and Sharps rifles. All used paper patch bullets.

Thanks for ordering my Creedmoor book. That book is more a story of the events leading up to the 1874 match and the match itself, rather than a firearms treatise, although there is information on the rifles used. I hope you enjoy it.

David
 

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