Shooting bag Cross of Lorraine

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Hipshot

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I see some shooting bags for sale with the Cross of Lorraine, usually in red, on the flap. Was this symbol used on shooting bags of the 18 or 19 century?
 

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It's certainly old enough.

The Lorraine cross was carried to the Crusades by the original Knights Templar, granted to them for their use by the Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Hermetic alchemists of the Renaissance used the emblem as a symbol of earth and spirit by combining the square earth cross with the cross of Christ. When drawn symmetrically, it symbolized the hermetic maxim, "As above, so below".
In the Catholic Church, the equal-armed Lorraine Cross denotes the office of Cardinal.
 

tg

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Goo question, as most bags are almost impossible to accurately date it will b hard to tell, I suspecy mostbof the decoration ideas are of modern ideas or period patterns used on other items to add some historical flare to things, maybe someone will have some accuratelydated bags to better answer the question, 18th century are hard to come by from what I gather, 19th century may be a bit betterthlater you go, If something symbolic was verified as used on an 18th century item it could likley be incorporated into most anything and thus would probably not be a foul to use it on a hunting bag as mentioned before in some cases a bit of poetic liscene is generally allowed after exhausting all period solid,hard,direct references, but this practice is best not done willy nilly with absolutely nothing to suggest any conntion IMHO. I have always wondered if we do not decorate our bags much more than the originals were done
 

bnail

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tg said:
Goo question, as most bags are almost impossible to accurately date it will b hard to tell, I suspecy mostbof the decoration ideas are of modern ideas or period patterns used on other items to add some historical flare to things, maybe someone will have some accuratelydated bags to better answer the question, 18th century are hard to come by from what I gather, 19th century may be a bit betterthlater you go, If something symbolic was verified as used on an 18th century item it could likley be incorporated into most anything and thus would probably not be a foul to use it on a hunting bag as mentioned before in some cases a bit of poetic liscene is generally allowed after exhausting all period solid,hard,direct references, but this practice is best not done willy nilly with absolutely nothing to suggest any conntion IMHO. I have always wondered if we do not decorate our bags much more than the originals were done
Well put TG. I was trying to formlate that same thought but you beat me to it.
I would add to be carefull of the manufactured bags. I've seen a few sold at Track of the Wolf that have the red Cross of Lorraine on the flap, but they're still stylistically wrong.

The cross itself would be fine on the right bag
 

Stophel

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Probably not, and even if so, not unless you were French. :wink:
 

Rat Trapper

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I had Horner75 here make me up couple bags and one has the cross of lorraine the other a hunters star. Not sure if they are PC or HC, but I like them and they look good to me.
 

Coot

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Stophel said:
Probably not, and even if so, not unless you were French. :wink:
I think that you are correct.
 

mikee51848

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Rat Trapper said:
I had Horner75 here make me up couple bags and one has the cross of lorraine the other a hunters star. Not sure if they are PC or HC, but I like them and they look good to me.
Probably not right for a juried event (unless you're a French trapper perhaps), but if you like them, that's all that matters. I have one myself.
 

tg

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It kind of feels like we are drifting from the historical accurate equipment theme if all that matters is that we like them, juried event or not?
 

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Yes, the question was - "Was this symbol used on shooting bags of the 18 or 19 century? - Not can he use it if he likes it.

It's obvious that some people have no idea what the "Historically Accurate Equipment" section is for. I seriously doubt that it was put here for people who have no interest in reenacting, historical accuracy, or the truth. IN MY OPINION!

(Ah, I feel much better now, thank you) :haha:
 

Okwaho

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Coot said:
Stophel said:
Probably not, and even if so, not unless you were French. :wink:
I think that you are correct.
I agree, this is in the same category as long hunters wearing quillwork and trade silver
Tom Patton :v :bow:
 

mikee51848

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TJ and Jack,
I'm willing to bet that we all carry equipment that is not 100% historically correct to our periods that we reenact. An item catches our fancy or whim, and gets added to our kits. I explained that it's not correct for Rev War, my field of re-enacting, but if he likes the item, enjoy! Serious reenactors compare and improve their kits, and that will happen if he pursues that course. The cross has symbolism for him, and me. If I broke the rules of this forum, I apologize. But you two need to take a chill pill regarding your statements. Jack, glad you feel better.
PS. Jack, what era do you reenact? Let's see your kit.
 

tg

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"but if you like them, that's all that matters.'

I was making an observation and the defensive response was typical. The above sentence is absolutely at odds with this subforum, it is a given that one can use whatever they wish unless rules of an event prohibit it but this sub form does not deal with that aspect of the hobby but rather whether an item is or is not historically correct, and whenever an item is said not to be PC/hC everyone who has one starts a defensive posture as though someone had told them they had to throw it in the crapper, I mearly tried to steer the thread back to the correct direction for this forum, if that bothered you I really do not care in the least, and looking at other folks kits and pointing to a non PC/HC item(I suspect this is where you were headed with Jack) is really irrelevant as long as they are not making any unwarrented claims about the who/where/when in history the item might belong and is also about at a third grade playground level as well. :shake: I have and often carry nonPC/HC items to my 1760ish persona but that has nothing to do with the fact that said items are not PC/HC, I NEVER said all my stuff is correct or that everyone should have correct stuff, only that if traveling the historical path at one level or another it is a good thing to know what is and what isn't based on that which we know at this point in time so inaccurate claims are not inadvertantly made, as for the purposefully wrong claims that is another story in of itself.
 

Rifleman1776

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Hipshot said:
I see some shooting bags for sale with the Cross of Lorraine, usually in red, on the flap. Was this symbol used on shooting bags of the 18 or 19 century?
edit: deleted
 

Rifleman1776

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Rat Trapper said:
I had Horner75 here make me up couple bags and one has the cross of lorraine the other a hunters star. Not sure if they are PC or HC, but I like them and they look good to me.

I have been doing some Googling and the best I can learn is that most of the cross styles go so far back into antiquity the origins are lost. I hope no one has an apopolyptic fit over this, but my fowler has a starburst cross on it. I told the builder to put a cross on the stock but did not specify what kind. This is what we came up with. As far as 'authentic', that is up to the beholder. What I have learned is that the idea goes back to the ressurection and symbolizes that for those who belive in the event. (am I still OK mods?) Fact is, I don't care what others think. I like it.
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