Shooting across the flats

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Eterry

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Does anyone have a mark on their barrel, between the front and rear sight, to "shoot across the flats"?

The older gentleman who helped me build my Early Lancaster has talked about it, and at the Dallas safari show i saw the custom rifle that was in Muzzle Blast magazine in 2018. It has a small mark on the barrel to hit at 200yards, shooting across the flats.

Anyone do this?
 

Eterry

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20190117_112729.jpg20190117_112720.jpg20190117_112926.jpg
Mr. Toenjes at Dallas Safari Show. His rifle had the mark, no good pictures, it's in MB mag though.
 
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Tom A Hawk

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I had not heard of this however it sounds like an extreme application of front sight elevation. Perhaps necessary with a very low front sight.
 

52Bore

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I took one of Hugh’s classes he offered at Friendship in 2018. It was a 3-day class. He was a great teacher and interesting to talk to.
He had his $100k rifle on hand as we discussed.
The mark in the flat you reference is a silver ‘dot’ 6 or so inches from the muzzle - use as a front sight as Target is placed a top the barrel flat of the muzzle in ones sight picture.
Pretty simple concept.

17AEBF05-DBFE-4C8E-8B12-250283FE162E.jpeg
 

Eterry

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I truly enjoyed the MB article and about the 1000 hours he spent building the rifle, then another 1000 hours building the case and accoutrements.
The rifle im holding IS NOT the $100,000 rifle, it was off limits to being handled.
Thanks for the info 52bore
 

nkbj

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Long time ago, playing with long range, I used the front sight base for elevation alignment with the top of the fixed rear sight, the tomato can on top of the blade. That was with a .45 Kentucky, 65 grains of FFFg.

That 1976 drug store gun had weird rifling with real skinny lands like a Remington .22. But it would shoot.
 
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I truly enjoyed the MB article and about the 1000 hours he spent building the rifle, then another 1000 hours building the case and accoutrements.
The rifle im holding IS NOT the $100,000 rifle, it was off limits to being handled.
Thanks for the info 52bore
I’d be too afraid to even if it wasn’rnt! :O
 

1Poet

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I can't find anything on " shoot across the flat"! Would like someone to help explain in detail. Thanks
 

Eterry

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The way I understand it, a mark is placed about 6 inches or so behind the front sight. It is a silver or gold inlay so it can easily be seen.
The mark is used as an elevated hold, elevating the barrel and placing the mark above the rear sight.
Then the target is placed on top of the front sight, as usual.
What this does is allows you to hold high, but having a consistent holding point so you can repeat the shot.

I gather it's a trial and error finding where to put the mark.
Ken had told me about the practice years ago, the article about Hugh Toenjes' rifle was the first confirmation of the practice I've seen.
 

Zonie

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Somehow I can't envision looking at some place on the top flat of the barrel, raising the gun so it is on top of the front sight and then being able to see the target. Seems to me, the top flat at the muzzle and the front sight would be blocking my view of the target.
 

Eterry

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I’d be too afraid to even if it wasn’rnt! :O
At the Dallas Safari Show it's not uncommon to see Fine British Doubles costing well over 100k. Most are used, some previously owned by royalty, and when you shoulder one you're instantly transported to the Okavango Delta.

20190117_105159.jpg20190117_105206.jpg20190117_105213.jpg
 

Eterry

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Somehow I can't envision looking at some place on the top flat of the barrel, raising the gun so it is on top of the front sight and then being able to see the target. Seems to me, the top flat at the muzzle and the front sight would be blocking my view of the target.
I understand you place the mark on top of the REAR sight.
I just tried it with my Early Lancaster, i see where it's possible.
 

Eterry

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A Leupold on a WR???
The WR is in the case, broke down, I don't recall what was the double with a scope, but you do see some scoped Brittish doubles.20190117_105232.jpg Here's a H&H in 500 in its case, and several other doubles around it. . 20190117_105232.jpg
 
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1Poet

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How do these beautiful rifles contribute to the discussion and understanding of "shooting across the flats"? Can anyone provide a drawing of this idea?
 

TNGhost

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Somehow I can't envision looking at some place on the top flat of the barrel, raising the gun so it is on top of the front sight and then being able to see the target. Seems to me, the top flat at the muzzle and the front sight would be blocking my view of the target.
Wouldn't it be the same as any shot at a range beyond the ballistic capability of the front sight?

You'd simply pick an aiming point directly above the target same as if you didn't have the "across the flats" witness mark. the mark would simply give you a point of repeatabiltiy for range, something akin to the old British volley sights
 

Eterry

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How do these beautiful rifles contribute to the discussion and understanding of "shooting across the flats"? Can anyone provide a drawing of this idea?
The only specimen that i've seen with a mark on the barrel for Shooting across the flats was a $100,000 flintlock by Mr Toenjes at the Dallas Safari Show. Which led to other discussing other $100,000 rifles, which led to pictures of same...easy, peasy. 😁
 

52Bore

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I took one of Hugh’s classes he offered at Friendship in 2018. It was a 3-day class. He was a great teacher and interesting to talk to.
He had his $100k rifle on hand as we discussed.
The mark in the flat you reference is a silver ‘dot’ 6 or so inches from the muzzle - use as a front sight as Target is placed a top the barrel flat of the muzzle in ones sight picture.
Pretty simple concept.
Here’s a quick sketch.
D2B80F43-C383-4A17-A0A5-9C9099EA47A3.jpeg
 
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