Shipping Percussion Revolver?

[SOLANCO]

Last year purchased a sxs shotgun from a forum member. Received by USPS in a heavy, padded carton marked "Garden Art".

 

[SmokepoleSam]

Alan Ruuska, this rule by the USPS is about handguns only, it is not about long guns or parts.
Ormond Tony, as I said earlier just because you can send it thru the mail doesn't make it legal.
Look at what Columbus posted in post 15 and don't shoot the messenger I'm only pointing things out, you are going to do what you want anyway.
Have a good day

 

[fishmusic]

I had a lengthy discussion with a USPS clerk a year or so ago regarding a CVA rifle kit that I sold to a member here. At first the clerk refused to ship the rifle. I asked to see a supervisor. He looked up the relevant sections of the postal code and concluded it was OK to ship an ANTIQUE weapon. There was no mention of whether or not I was an FFL (I'm not). I am sorry that I did not jot down a reference to the section of the regulations that applied. I had a similar problem with a Canadian dealer that refused to ship a Ruger Old Army barrel (only) to me in Massachusetts. I wrote to BATF and received a letter that it was legal to do so. I suggest you look up the regulations and/or get your own letter as I am not a lawyer and things change and this message does not constitute legal advice.

Title 18_Chapter 44_and Title 26_Chapter 53_of the United States Code, I checke this out a couple of days ago.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

UPS & Fed Ex track all firearm shipments and give the info to the ATF.
Another list to be on, oh joy.

 

[nkbj]

So what is now the truth about mailing percussion revolvers?
I've been reading through the USPS's 2023 updates on definitions and exceptions and it appears to me that they are intentionally cloudy.

43 Firearms​

431 Definitions​

431.1 Firearm​

The following definitions apply:

1. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include antique firearms (except antique firearms meeting the description of a handgun or of a firearm capable of being concealed on a person).
2. Firearm frame or receiver is the part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. Frames and receivers usually (but not always) include the firearm serial number and are usually considered to be the regulated component of a firearm.

431.2 Handguns​

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:

1. Handgun (including pistols and revolvers) means any firearm which has a short stock, and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand and subject to 431.1, or a combination of parts from which a handgun can be assembled.
2. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.
3. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels that are less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

431.3 Antique Firearm​

Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

 

[ormond tony]

Sorry to drift off topic, but I messaged Pietta to ask if and when the Spiller and Burr would be in production again but got no response. I think I'll try again, maybe if they are asked enough, they will get it going again!

The last email reply I got from Pietta said they may be starting up production late August or September. this was a few months ago.

 

[ormond tony]

431.3 is what I understand is muzzleloading. I recently sent two BP revolvers using priority mail. I logged into the USPS site, went to mailing and selected regulary priority mail (other type of priority mail requires USPS box), printed label, taped it to box (normal looking box) and dropped it at the package drop slot at the post office. Didn't have to talk or see any human being. I did put the revolvers in another box inside the outer box with plenty of bubblewrap, etc. Nothing indicating what was in the box. Just had to indicate online at the time of printing, there was no explosives, etc in the box. The buying of the label is registered at the PO and it is followed at each step, just like other mail I sent. No problem. Individual received them within 4/5 days.

 

[Sam squanch]

The problems will start when they are lost and you file a claim. Or they are accidentally opened.

 

[ormond tony]

The problems will start when they are lost and you file a claim. Or they are accidentally opened.

T
If it is lost then the last item 431.3 says it's ok if it's a muzzleloader made before 1898 or REPLICA and it hasn't been changed to fire cartridges. Put in a claim for a muzzleloader under 431.1. Knock wood: I've shipped 4 muzzleloader revolvers without a problem using USPS online label making for priority mail. If it is opened accidently then it's the USPS fault for not making a correct delivery and your recourse would be to go after USPS for non-delivery of package you paid them to deliver to the correct address. The argument would be in refusing to pay for delivery to the correct address if the USPS returns it to you.

Twice in the past year, I put in claims for lost packages (not identifying what's inside package) and each time the USPS magically found the package in 3/4 days. And delivered to correct address.

It's a can or worms and best not to assume or try to figure out solutions to things that haven't happened. Remember to overdo in packaging and securing the insides of packages. And triple check all addresses.

 

[Packrat]

Shipped a Luger, had to go through ffl
Special form I had to fill out, told not this way with BP
Post office told me no problems fir BP revolvers
But than I live in Arizona and we are gun friendly

 

[Sam squanch]

You might get away with shipping them now…. It just takes ONE gun hating postmaster, or a new regulation , to deprive you of your 2nd amendment rights and your personal freedom in the future. My postmaster said NO handguns, even antiques or replicas, can ship unless between FFL’s. I’m not taking the risk. You do what you want.

 

[Sam squanch]

PS- you can’t even possess a handgun, modern or antique, on post office property. I wouldn’t challenge that one , either. That’s everybody…. Except law enforcement.

 

[45D]

I've shipped and received 100's, they've never NOT gotten to where they were supposed to go. The post office supplies priority boxes for you. Don't be cheap on tape, make sure what's inside can't move when you shake it. Just answer the questions as asked about "hazardous materials". Non of their business as to WHAT you are mailing.

Of course, my postal folks know what I do and don't have a problem. Most of the problems arise when "attitude" creeps in.
Sometimes packages show up here with a barrel sticking out, we get a chuckle out of it. It's best to make sure the sender understands HOW to pack an item but it doesn't always work out.

Don't make something simple something complicated.

Mike

 

[TDM]

Don't make something simple something complicated.

Agree Mike.

 

[ormond tony]

PS- you can’t even possess a handgun, modern or antique, on post office property. I wouldn’t challenge that one , either. That’s everybody…. Except law enforcement.

People would be very surprised to learn where you can't carry. The one I like is "you can carry in a restaurant but if that restaurant has a bar, you cannot go in the bar.' That's against the law. (at least in Florida)

 

[GYJ]

The law is the law. Doesn't matter what the postmaster's beliefs are.

 

[necchi]

and it appears to me that they are intentionally cloudy.

It's always been pretty straight forward to me. What's the complication?

 

[Sam squanch]

The law is posted on the post office wall in the lobby and at the service desk. Y’all do what you want. Let us know when you get a visit from the postal inspectors with federal and state law enforcement…..

 

[#blackpowderbill]

I speak from experience, it's a long thread. USPS Publication 52 Burned by USPS

Same here, USPS lost a nickel plated 36 and refused to cover it.
Their reason was I didn't fill out the firearm form for it was shipped.
I went back and forth with the moron in Louisville Kentucky.

Explain to him 50 different ways that it wasn't a firearm and you don't fill that form out unless it's going to an FFL.
My local post office we even had pictures of it where it went through the Atlanta Depot.

 

[Dsm01s]

Early this summer, I bought two used revolvers, a replica Colt Walker and a Colt Dragoon. Both were shipped in the same box. They made it as far as the local USPS metro distribution center, at which the box split open and the two horse pistols fell out in the sorting area. It must have caused quite a scene.

I got a call from the Postal Inspector, a federal officer (as he described himself) and stated they had a shipment of handguns in a box that opened during shipment, and could I explain. I explained they were black powder percussion replicas. The Postal Inspector stated these were permissible to ship, and I could pick them up anytime.

I went to the distribution center, explained who I was, and the customer service representative brought those giant horse pistols to the front, dropped them on the counter, and I picked them up. You should have seen the looks on the other customers as I walked out with those pistols.

So based on my experience with the USPS system and it’s enforcement officer, I have no doubt about the legality of shipping black powder revolvers. Just be sure to PACK THEM WELL.