SmokepoleSam
45 Cal.
I have shot T/C&CVA for years and don't slap the side, as long as I remember to put powder in it it fires as it should.
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Seating the ball
- Thread starter Tb54
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Ketchakah
40 Cal.
I do agree with Jack,
But i do not patch tight enough to need a starter. The ball runs right down with the wiper and i just seat it firmly.
I will say however, i only competition shoot very casually and don't care if i win or not.
Minute of Skwerl is good nough for me.
But i do not patch tight enough to need a starter. The ball runs right down with the wiper and i just seat it firmly.
I will say however, i only competition shoot very casually and don't care if i win or not.
Minute of Skwerl is good nough for me.
LOL
The last guy I saw at the range whanging the ball like that I asked, "Did that ball offend you in some manner?"
He replied, "I'm making sure the ball is seated as tight as possible", in a rather gruff manner.
I nodded and smiled......,
LD
You'r thinking of the KaDooty ram rod.
The company that made it is long out of business but occasionally a used one can be found on the net.
I don't know if it is worth it to buy one. They didn't seem to be too popular when they were being produced and I can't believe they improved with a lot of use.
IMO, just getting a good feel for the amount of pressure needed to fully seat the ball against the powder and repeating it every time the gun is loaded should give the consistency that is needed for good accuracy.
That is as well said as it can be said.
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That’s the one. I recall Sam Fadala testing and reporting on it. He felt the concept was sound but also reached the same conclusion as you and me. (And apparently the larger muzzleloading buying public.) Pay attention to and learn to seat the ball with as much consistency as you can.
I'm shooting Maxi balls, makes 'em start just a little harder to engrave that top ring.
RHensley
Pilgrim
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After I find the right amount of powder patch ball combonation I load and mark the ramrod at the end of the muzzle. From then on when I load I look at the mark when I load and if it's at the muzzle end. that's it. no more pushing.
From Ned Roberts book, The Muzzle Loading Cap Rock Rifle", page 160, "When you load your gun you must always put your ball down one time as hard as another; if you push it one time harder than another, it will shoot one time higher than the other".
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Make sure you dont use a wood ram rod cause if it breaks your in deep do do
I WAS THERE DURING THE KAOOTY EXPERIMENTS,SOMEONE SENT ME A SIMILAR DEVICE FOR MEASURING THE FINAL PRESSURE EXERTED ON A SEATED PATCHED BALL AND POWDER.
IT DIDN'T MAKE A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT OF SENSE TO ME, AND THAT HEAVY THING ON THE END OF YOUR STEEL RAM ROD WAS AWKWARD AT BEST AND AN EXTREME PAIN AT ITS WORST.
BEING A BELIEVER IN CONSISTENCY AND THAT ANY CHANGE IN YOUR LOADING CREATES A CHANGE IN YOUR GROUPS, I ADOPTED THE PRACTICE OFEXERTING ENOUGH DONWARD PRESSURE ON MY LOADING ROD THAT MY HEELS WOULD BEGIN TO RISE FROM THE GROUND. I FELT THAT APPLYING THE WEIGHT OF HALF A SCOULTZ, SHOT AFTER SHOT WOULD ADD TO THE CONSISTENCY.
A GOOD SIDE EFFECT WAS THAT THISADDED WEIGHT WOULD ALSO SERVE TO BREAK AWAY THAT HARD RING THAT SOMETINE FORMS ABOUT WHERE THE THE LOADED BALL WOULD REST WITH ASATISFYING KERCHUNCK.
WERE I STILL ABLE TO SHOOT, A HALF SCHOULTZ MIGHT BE TOO MUCH THESE DAYS..
DUTCH SCHOULTZ
IT DIDN'T MAKE A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT OF SENSE TO ME, AND THAT HEAVY THING ON THE END OF YOUR STEEL RAM ROD WAS AWKWARD AT BEST AND AN EXTREME PAIN AT ITS WORST.
BEING A BELIEVER IN CONSISTENCY AND THAT ANY CHANGE IN YOUR LOADING CREATES A CHANGE IN YOUR GROUPS, I ADOPTED THE PRACTICE OFEXERTING ENOUGH DONWARD PRESSURE ON MY LOADING ROD THAT MY HEELS WOULD BEGIN TO RISE FROM THE GROUND. I FELT THAT APPLYING THE WEIGHT OF HALF A SCOULTZ, SHOT AFTER SHOT WOULD ADD TO THE CONSISTENCY.
A GOOD SIDE EFFECT WAS THAT THISADDED WEIGHT WOULD ALSO SERVE TO BREAK AWAY THAT HARD RING THAT SOMETINE FORMS ABOUT WHERE THE THE LOADED BALL WOULD REST WITH ASATISFYING KERCHUNCK.
WERE I STILL ABLE TO SHOOT, A HALF SCHOULTZ MIGHT BE TOO MUCH THESE DAYS..
DUTCH SCHOULTZ
Ketchakah
40 Cal.
Ah..Yes Maxis...
Ive never tried those. Have been wanting to. Any thoughts on if they may add performance to Smoothbore ? I believe this was done in CW but i dont know for sure. Perhaps your experience might provide more insight for me.
Adds to list of things to try.
Ive never tried those. Have been wanting to. Any thoughts on if they may add performance to Smoothbore ? I believe this was done in CW but i dont know for sure. Perhaps your experience might provide more insight for me.
Adds to list of things to try.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Maxi ball or conical shaped bullets need a rifling twist to stabalize that type of bullet. A round ball needs little or no twist to stabalize. Compare throwing a basketball to a football.
I don't think a Maxi would do well in a smooth bore as it is bullet shaped and would surely tumble.
Ten or twenty years ago I was heavily in to getting all I could out of our predominate deer weapon, shot gun and in those days the smooth bore, improved cylinder bore, shot gun barrel with rifle type sights was pretty much it. So I was always looking for a new slug or new plan. One time I ran across a study they did in Handloader magazine testing all the available commercial slugs at the time AND the options for RELOADING slugs at the time. Their very best they came up with was a .620 round ball loaded in a shot cup with the petals on. Best accuracy and highest velocity.
This was WELL BEFORE sabots and rifled barrels were in common use with shotguns but it far out performed foster slugs, common shotgun slugs which would be a giant equivalent of the civil war era mini ball.
With no more than that to go on, I would make my best guess that the round ball is going to perform best in a smooth bore.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Yep
I searched for .620 round balls for years and years to try duplicating their tests and sabots and rifled barrels for shot guns came along before I ever found any so I never attempted that.
I did find that a 54 cal. ball inside a 20 gauge wad fit pretty darn well through a modified choke. Never did it enough to say if it was good or bad but it is a lot better than nothing. I probably shot a hand full of them playing around with it, at ice, water jugs, may be a a piece of fire wood. That's about as far as I went with it.
By then I had slug molds from Lee and Lyman for 20 and 12 gauge slugs.
I did find that a 54 cal. ball inside a 20 gauge wad fit pretty darn well through a modified choke. Never did it enough to say if it was good or bad but it is a lot better than nothing. I probably shot a hand full of them playing around with it, at ice, water jugs, may be a a piece of fire wood. That's about as far as I went with it.
By then I had slug molds from Lee and Lyman for 20 and 12 gauge slugs.
Ketchakah
40 Cal.
That makes complete sense, Thank you.
I had heard about them used in muskets of the CW, but seems what i think of as a Musket and what they do was two different things.
OH !!! See what a little research does ? According to what i read, a rifled Musket was a converted Smoothbore. Much like a "Smooth Rifle" in opposite. Its the terminology that makes the confusion.
You guys have any thoughts on this ? Not my specialty.
I had heard about them used in muskets of the CW, but seems what i think of as a Musket and what they do was two different things.
OH !!! See what a little research does ? According to what i read, a rifled Musket was a converted Smoothbore. Much like a "Smooth Rifle" in opposite. Its the terminology that makes the confusion.
You guys have any thoughts on this ? Not my specialty.
A rifled musket was a smoothbore that had been rifled sometime after manufacture. A rifle-musket was a military arm built with a rifled barrel such as the Springfield models of 1861 & 1863. A rifle (US military) was an arm built with a heavy walled rifled barrel usually 33" in length, examples are the 1841 Mississippi, the 1855 rifle from Harpers Ferry and the 1863 Remington "Zouave". Is there anything else I can do to add to the confusion?
Ketchakah
40 Cal.
Nope,
You have completely muddled it my friend. I'm teasing... That's pretty much what i had found as well. Thank you for your examples.
I never really had gotten into learning about this aspect. All goes to show ? There is nothing truly new under the sun.
You have completely muddled it my friend. I'm teasing...
That's pretty much what i had found as well. Thank you for your examples.I never really had gotten into learning about this aspect. All goes to show ? There is nothing truly new under the sun.
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How one seats the ball on the power is not nearly as important as consistency in seating the ball from shot to shot. i sometimes see guys who are inconsistent in seating the ball. They don't shoot very well either.
