Schuetzen 4 wing musket caps ..school me please

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
Ran out of RWS 4 wingers so the LGS had "Schuetzen" Pistones 4 Atlas which I assume is saying primer 4 wing??

Any how they are hot as all get out ..did my customary wad of paper in the muzzle test before leaving for the range ...holy cow it shot the paper wad all the way across my basement!

NO WHERE on the box however does it say non corrosive .. perhaps we are way past corrosive priming formulas world wide but SOME priming compounds from the past are not sated with the normal amounts of soap and water ..and these are made in the EU

Any of you fellow shooters have more back ground/history on this particular musket cap school me up please

Bear
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
373
Reaction score
444
Location
Southern California
I'm pretty sure that they moved away from corrosive caps quite a few years ago. I looked on all sides of the packaging on the 100 cap packets and it did not say anything about non-corrosive. Maybe on the bigger box that the packets come in, but I don't have one right now.I've been using these for a couple of years and sure hope they aren't corrosive.
 

Attachments

  • 20220929_082359.jpg
    20220929_082359.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
Ok I found the safety data sheet so any chemical guys …is this a corrosive musket cap

COMPOSTION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL OR TRADE NAME
Lead Styphnate
Tetrazene
Aluminium
Barium Nitrate
Antimonium Sulfur
CHEMICAL FORMULA
***EXPLOSIVE CONTENT IS A SPECIAL MIXTURE IN A METAL SHELL***
C6HN3O8Pb
C18H12
Al
Ba(NO3)2
Sb2S3
7429-90-5
10022-31-8
1345-04-6
CAS NUMBER
15245-44-0 109-27-3
 

Old Hawkeye

45 Cal.
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
953
Reaction score
1,619
You are shooting Black Powder for crying out loud. Isn't that corrosive enough. Clean the darn rifle when you get done shooting & stop dreaming up stuff to worry about. Do you really think the caps are going to corrode your barrel any more than the powder if you neglect to properly clean it in a timely manner?
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2022
Messages
390
Reaction score
948
Location
idaho
Ok I found the safety data sheet so any chemical guys …is this a corrosive musket cap

COMPOSTION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL OR TRADE NAME
Lead Styphnate
Tetrazene
Aluminium
Barium Nitrate
Antimonium Sulfur
CHEMICAL FORMULA
***EXPLOSIVE CONTENT IS A SPECIAL MIXTURE IN A METAL SHELL***
C6HN3O8Pb
C18H12
Al
Ba(NO3)2
Sb2S3
7429-90-5
10022-31-8
1345-04-6
CAS NUMBER
15245-44-0 109-27-3
Non-mercuric....sulpher is corrosive as is any nitrate and both are water sponges. But as stated earlier, you are shooting something that uses inherently corrosive ingredients.

As for corrosive primers, I bought 1500 rounds of military ball 30-06 rounds with corrosive primers for dirt cheap in 1971 and shot the piss out of my winchester model 70 post 64, religiously cleaning it after every use. I still have that gun 50 years later, it shoots sub-moa still and you can see no apparent issues with any type of corrosion. I would quit hand-wringing over it.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
You are shooting Black Powder for crying out loud. Isn't that corrosive enough. Clean the darn rifle when you get done shooting & stop dreaming up stuff to worry about. Do you really think the caps are going to corrode your barrel any more than the powder if you neglect to properly clean it in a timely manner?
Well that is a valid thought IF you are shooting black powder ..and yes I can now have 25lbs shipped in and have reasonable price/lb however I have no clubs or any other regular shooters I am aware of around me to split shipments
Since rural Missouri is not a front stuffer hot bed there no LGS's between St Louis Nd Memphis that carry black ..that I am aware of any way
So when I re-entered muzzle-loading a few years ago Triple Seven is what I re-started with and I quickly discovered it cleans up nicely with Hoppy #9 and oil ..
Easy cleaning has spoiled me in that if I can get away from work early I can shoot a few hours thu the week and then do a full clean up during the following weekend ..IN other words I get to do a heck of a lot more shooting than if I have to set aside a half day just to shoot and clean which is what I have to do when I shoot black ..but I'm old n slow I suppose

Thanks
BEAR
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
Non-mercuric....sulpher is corrosive as is any nitrate and both are water sponges. But as stated earlier, you are shooting something that uses inherently corrosive ingredients.

As for corrosive primers, I bought 1500 rounds of military ball 30-06 rounds with corrosive primers for dirt cheap in 1971 and shot the piss out of my winchester model 70 post 64, religiously cleaning it after every use. I still have that gun 50 years later, it shoots sub-moa still and you can see no apparent issues with any type of corrosion. I would quit hand-wringing over it.
Yes I know but my above reply to Old Hawkeye explains my quest ...PLUS
LEAD STYPHNATE ..unless the chemical reaction of the detonation changes it ..IS NOT water soluble according to what my non chemical mind reads in a dissertation of the compound

I suppose I can relegate musket shooting to weekends

BEAR
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2022
Messages
390
Reaction score
948
Location
idaho
:dunno:

Oooookay.

Do you treat your unmentionable weapons that way, because ALL modern primers (center fire) have LEAD STYPHNATE in them. It is the prime ingredient that makes them go boom.

 
Last edited:

Gunny5821

Richard Turner
MLF Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
864
Reaction score
1,946
Location
Alabama
The Schutzen Musket Caps are made by Rio Ammunition, in Spain. Rio also has a shotshell factory in Marshall, TX. Rio makes every component in house, primers, powder, hull, wads, and lead shot, no item is outsourced. Their shotshells are known world wide as one of the most consistent and cleanest available

How much lead styphnate is in a percussion cap, shotshell, rifle, pistol primer?

As has been noted, lead styphnate in either its normal or basic form is, because of its noncorrosive feature, in general use as the percussion- sensitive ingredient in present-day primers, constituting typically 35-40 percent by weight of the primer mix.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
:dunno:

Oooookay.

Do you treat your unmentionable weapons that way, because ALL modern primers (center fire) have LEAD STYPHNATE in them. It is the prime ingredient that makes them go boom.

Yup ..they get fully wiped down n oiled after every outing and when time (with in reason) allows the full monty cleaning occurs ..I will point out that modern day primers are advertised as non corrosive so there must be something in the compounds that balance things out ..that is why I asked if there were any chemists among us
It helps also that my walk-in vault is temperature controlled as well as humidity maintained at 48%

:thumb:
Bear
 

dave951

58 Cal.
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
2,063
Reaction score
3,396
I use them in competition musket shooting and they're good. One thing, the metal that use is a tad harder than RWS and they sometimes don't quite seat in the nipple. When that happens, you'll get a "misfire" because it cushions the hammer strike. Easy fix, polish the nipple a bit. I've done it to all my guns and no misfires
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
36
Location
Texas
They are very hot, I love them.

Might also consider that a fair amount of the BP gasses will back-flush the flash channel and nipple once pressure is devoped, so even IF the cap's chemistry is aggressive, it's somewhat jetted overboard before it reaches forward into the rifling much, then is diluted by the big volume of powder fouling. LRML shooters with platinim lined nipples would have even less to worry about. I hope to try some in my Whitworth.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
3,269
Reaction score
3,303
Might also consider that a fair amount of the BP gasses will back-flush the flash channel and nipple once pressure is devoped, so even IF the cap's chemistry is aggressive, it's somewhat jetted overboard before it reaches forward into the rifling much, then is diluted by the big volume of powder fouling. LRML shooters with platinim lined nipples would have even less to worry about. I hope to try some in my Whitworth.
Honestly I buy all the so called "junk" CCI Reenactor 4-wing musket caps I can find, because they work just fine in my Enfields and percussion Pedersoli 1816 musket

The rifles like repro 61 Springfields get finicky with them but I just don't use them in those
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
319
Reaction score
513
Location
S.E. Missouri
Who cares about corrosive caps? Please all the powder IS corrosive all cleans the same
maybe ..maybe not ..in order of corrosive properties from cleaning all three
1. Pyrodex
2. Black
3. Triple Seven
And #3 will actually clean up in the field during extended hunts with Hoppe #9 or Windex but full water and soap then *alcohol n oil (*depending on firearm type) is still suggested before extended storage

Try it ..you might find you like it

Bear
 
Top