Samson historic

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tenngun

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Just heard about this company. IT LOOKS like they have good products at a good price. I’m quick to recommend companies I’ve done business with that have given good service. And you get what you pay for. I like Townsends and Crazy Crow, I don’t compare the two.
Any one have experience with this company?
 
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I just stumbled accross this company two days ago, never heard of it before. Was lookin for FnI waistcoat, and came across them. The waistcoats are $72, which is the cheapest that I've seen them on the Internet atleast. Townsends waistcoats are $170, way more expensive. But can't say for quality for either of them, cause I've never had them. Samson Historical's products reviews were mostly all good from what I see. Before Samson, smoke and fire had some of the best prices I've seen, like example their waistcoats are $110, not a bad price. I do soon want to get one of Samsons waistcoats, then I will know somewhat about customer service, product quality, shipping etc..... when I have the weskit, I'll tell your it's quality.
One question though, what state are they in?

NW Territory Woodsman
 

Boatncamp

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Just heard about this company. IT LOOKS like they have good products at a good price. I’m quick to recommend companies I’ve done business with that have given good service. And you get what you pay for. I like Townsends and Crazy Crow, I don’t compare the two.
Any one have experience with this company?
I have purchased from them several times and their customer service is excellent. I have not had any issues with their products to date. One of my most recent purchases was a long F&I period waistcoat. It is green wool broadcloth with working pockets. Sizes are straight on. CW FIW1.jpg
Another vendor for the budget minded is Fort Laramie Frontier Trading Post. They can be found on ebay as flftp.
Samson's are good people. For accessories also check out Smiling Fox Forge.

Woody
 

Brokennock

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I have purchased from them several times and their customer service is excellent. I have not had any issues with their products to date. One of my most recent purchases was a long F&I period waistcoat. It is green wool broadcloth with working pockets. Sizes are straight on. View attachment 10375
Another vendor for the budget minded is Fort Laramie Frontier Trading Post. They can be found on ebay as flftp.
Samson's are good people. For accessories also check out Smiling Fox Forge.

Woody
Thank you for this very helpful, and encouraging, reply. I guess I know where my next pair of breeches will come from.
 

Boatncamp

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I have purchased from them several times and their customer service is excellent. I have not had any issues with their products to date. One of my most recent purchases was a long F&I period waistcoat. It is green wool broadcloth with working pockets. Sizes are straight on. View attachment 10375
Another vendor for the budget minded is Fort Laramie Frontier Trading Post. They can be found on ebay as flftp.
Samson's are good people. For accessories also check out Smiling Fox Forge.

Woody
The long coat and breeches I am wearing are from flftp.

Woody
 

Loyalist Dave

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Thank you for this very helpful, and encouraging, reply. I guess I know where my next pair of breeches will come from.
Their prices look pretty good. For example their garters are listed at $9 and I couldn't find a pair at Fort Fred in April for under $12. $95 for wool breeches is pretty standard. Their cooking equipment looks pretty well priced too, and I hope they have some good suppliers as several of the items that I'd be interested in throughout their online offerings are currently "sold out". :(

LD
 

Tallswife

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hubby and I have made several orders with Samson and we have loved everything we purchased. One issue we had was with shoes, hubby picked the wrong size, and they did an exchange no questions asked (no buckles poked thru). They have a great magazine they are publishing also, very informative, great pics, we really like it. I would do business with Samson any time!
 
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I just got Samsons brown breeches, and the description says they are light weight, NO, these are made of a really nice heavy material. They're prices are the best I've ever seen. Now I'm gonna get their FnI waistcoat to cover the pumkin butt, rotf !!!
 
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The knee breeches I got from Samson Historic are terrific for the price. At $72 for a heavey weight (they say leightweight) but a very nice heaveyweight breeches that are well made, I cant pass up. I recremend these breeches.

Now I do have quite a few products from Townsends and must say Townsends has some of the best costomer service ive seen around. Their products are also of very good quality too.

Know that I discovered Samson Historic, knowing they have really good prices($72 for a samson waistcoat and $100+$$$ for a townsends waistcoat) Am I gonna pay a lower price for a quality product from HS, Hell yes!

Samsons products seem to be of good quality and I'll keep shopping from them. If I had the breeches or waistcoat from townsends, I wouldnt feel right getting them torn up in the woods with what price that they are. So samsons green FnI waistcoat is on my radar next.

I shop what fits my needs in the woods. I dont shop by who's screwin who. Not my problem, not my buisiness.

Just my thought

NWT Woodsman
 

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I'm trying to keep my feelings and prejudices about the countries involved out of my thinking on this. I am failing. While I would prefer American made goods when it comes to my, Colonial American clothing and gear, I can't always afford it. While I know full well the country of China is not really our friend, I can deal with buying Chinese made goods, of course one doesn't have much choice in the market these days. Pakistan however, sorry folks (snowflakes and politically correct libtards may wish to stop reading here)
I have a huge problem with buying things from them. If I can possibly avoid sending my money there in any way, I will. I can't go into detail, but, I have my reasons.
 

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I really hate to see anyone use the term “libtard.” I could care less if someone is right wing or left wing etc. My objection comes from working with folks with disabilities for almost 30 years. They face enough challenges without the “tard” word coming up. It is on the same level as using the “n” word. I’ll back off now.
 

David Veale

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... I don't think that Samson or the other discount sellers have ever made any claims that anything is American made, not that much is these days.
While I know that some of Townsend's gear is imported, they do actually employ a bunch of locals to sew much of the clothing they offer (I've taken a tour of their facility and seen the employes sewing away). Whether for the production of historical goods or not, I think that's fantastic, and is something that very few businesses in the US still do.

With that said, I still think it's better to make your own, even if the cost is greater. The pride of learning (which often first involves failing!) a new skill is one of the best things about this lifestyle (or sport, or..?). It also gives us a far better perspective of the history we're looking to learn about.

I may be a bit of a loonie, but I'm also of the opinion that our country is running on fumes of past manufacturing glory, still sustained by the wonders of our fiat currency that allows us to print money to trade for actual goods. That won't last forever, and you'll find that skills learned from making your own may very well come in handy for survival once other countries "peer behind the curtain", in the Wizard of Oz sense. The fact that interest rates around the globe are at or *below* zero is evidence of a shrinking global economy.
 

Schiwapew03

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As well as stealing designs from Flying Heart Millinery, Romantically Bent, Sheldon Pewter, J&A Handmade, and MacGregor Games.
This is just a list of companies that you believe Samson Historical may have ripped off. This is not proof. First, J&A Handmade makes modern beaded jewelry (https://jandahandmadejewelry.com/). I had not heard of them until this post. I found them with a quick google search. Samson Historical does not sell jewelry at all. I cannot speak to any other issues with Flying Heart Millinery, Romantically Bent, or Sheldon Pewter, but I can show definitively that the cards MacGregor Games sells (https://historicgames.com/xcart/period_playing_cards/#pageId=1) and the cards that Samson Historical are printing themselves are not exactly the same. (https://www.samsonhistorical.com/pages/search-results-page?q=cards)

I am an avid card collector, and have purchased decks from both companies. MacGregor Games has one deck of 18th century cards, while Samson Historical offers two different decks. All three are of completely different origins, as can be seen in the photos below. The Samson Historical deck is based on a deck from Bamford in 1750, while the MacGregor Games deck is a facsimilie (copy) of a deck printed in London ca. 1750, from an unknown printer. According to their information, the only indication of who the printer was are is initials "HC" on the king of hearts. When looking at the actual cards, shown in the photos below, I can tell that they are based off the same deck, by the initials on the king of hearts; however, I can also tell that the two companies did their own research, as well as their own photo editing and printing. The quality of the two decks are not the same, as far as the printing. Additionally, the colors are not exactly the same, nor did Samsons simply slap the same graphics into a deck of cards. This can be seen by the distinct blue line around all of the face cards from MacGregor Games, which is not present on any of the cards from Samson Historical. There are also many small differences on all of the face cards, for instance, the King of spades has a white space on either side of the black robe on the Samson deck that is not present on the MacGregor deck. The same space can be seen between the red and yellow down the side of the King's leg on the Samson Deck and not on the MacGregor deck. Or the King of hearts, which has a white line between the red and white blocks in the lower left corner of the card on the Samson deck, which is not present on the MacGregor deck. This Samson card also shows extra lines inside the white sash on the Samson deck, a red outline around the kings hands and hair, and a gap between the red and blue of his robes, all of which are not present on the MacGregor deck. I have included photos of the two decks separately and side by side.

With a few minutes of research in my playing cards history books and google, I turned up the source for the images for both decks. It's not rocket science. Those images have been included as well, to show the differences on the original files.

I also turned up this fun tidbit of research. From: Playing Cards: The History and Secrets of the Pack by W. Gurney Benham (Spring Books, London), pg. 31 "The english cards (c.1750), placed side by side with the French cards of c. 1567, are a complete set of Court Cards reproduced from a pack issued by Bamford of London, about 1750 or a little later. The blocks were probably of an earlier date. 'H.C.,' on the sword of the King of Hearts, may be the initials of an earlier card-maker whose business had been taken over by Bamford. The name Bamford is not mentioned in the minutes of the London Company of Makers of Playing Cards, nor is there mention of any maker with the initials H.C."

Perhaps, as has been shown with the playing cards, Samsons have discovered the same extant pieces of clothing (as Flying Heart Millinery and Romantically Bent both sell clothing and accessories) to base their clothing line off of. Or maybe they simply purchased patterns that were commercially available and used them to design their clothing line. As simple as this seems, the overall goal of historical reenacting should be interpreting history as closely as possible. And that this is only possible if we acknowledge that not every single item or garment from the 18th century is still available. This makes it so that every reenactor creates their personas, garments, and accouterments based off of a few extant pieces, paintings, and writings from the time. It is extremely possible that if we are using the same sources and references that we end up with the same or similar items to sell. And this isn't a bad thing. We should be recreating the commonalities, rather than the unique items, especially if we want to accurately portray every day life in the 18th century.
 

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Gentlemen, the patterns for clothing, and printed material from centuries ago, are long in the public domain. It would be almost impossible to legally claim a design rip-off for something that has been reproduced endlessly over the last 50 years. If I removed a tag from Sutler A's weskit, and put my tag in it, that's not good. But if I had a weskit made in India or Pakistan, regardless of where I obtained the specimen piece, that pattern has been around since the 18th Century. Besides, who can afford a lawsuit involving international laws, particularly a complex place like India or Pakistan? You don't see Colt or Remington suing for the numerous copies. Counterfeit labelled clothing is seized all the time; brand names counterfeited on printed logos; but breeches or weskits? Not happening.
 

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I disappointed to see these issues between companies......... Not sure how the seams lining up makes a case but that will be for the Courts to decide down the road, if it ever gets there. .
I'm not a lawyer. My opinion is:

From what's been written, companies in the US who are having things made outside the US will very likely be required to prove they have an exclusive contract with the manufacturer to only make specified items for them, and not offer them to other vendors in the US (or anywhere else). If there isn't, the manufacturer is free to contact other vendors and offer them the same product. If there is, then whoever brings the lawsuit has to show there is an exclusive contract, and the US vendor knowingly tried to get the manufacturer sell them the same items, while knowing there was an exclusive contract with another vendor.

The matter of "removing tags"? The plaintiff would have to prove the items were imported with his tags on the items and then removed. If they were imported without tags, the plaintiff's case would have additional problems. I'd guess any foreign maker with a contract to ship items into the US might have tags on the items for the vendor who originally placed an order, and anything sold "on the side" would enter the US without a maker's name, only country of origin to conform with US customs requirements.

There are other problems with suing another vendor. Copyright law can be complicated, however, there are situations when art or creative works can be modified enough that they have distinct differences between the original and a copy. In practical terms today, you can go to a dealership an buy an OEM replacement part, or find an aftermarket product that works although there are differences, and perhaps no maker name or other details except "Product of XXXXX". If Sampson received an unbranded product, and did not willingly know the plaintiff had an exclusive contract with the manufacturer, the case will likely crash and burn, and the Plaintiffs lose money, and time.
 
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This is Christine Scanlon, owner of Romantically Bent, clearing the air on my own behalf. It was brought to my attention that my business name was used without my knowledge or consent. I am not nor will be involved in any alleged allegations or any legal proceedings. Thank you for understanding that I have just learned of this and do not wish my business to be associated with this matter.
 
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Valerie asked me to forward the following post:

As I am not a member of this forum, and it has been brought to my attention that Flying Heart Millinery has been mentioned in some posts, as proprietress of FHM I would like to state that I have not been and will not be party to any of the comments made regarding Samson Historical. Furthermore, I have not been nor will not be involved in any litigation involving Samson Historical and would appreciate it if the parties who have made reference to Flying Heart Millinery would cease and desist said references immediately and in the future. I appreciate all members’ considerations of my request. Best regards, Valerie Long, Flying Heart Millinery.
 
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