Safety on Pietta 1851 Navy

[crockett]

I guess I'll jump in here and be a &%#%(&@. How much documentation is there on this spare cylinder business? I have heard that the Confederates grabbed all the revolvers they could, maybe carrying up to six. I have a photo of a Confederate with four tucked under his belt but I think mostly the extra revolvers were hung off the saddle.
There is a book " I rode with Quantrill"- it's a pretty good book as it included Frank James. Old Frank found a busted up Colt Navy 36 and since this was the same type revolver he used, he kept the cylinder. I think that's about the only reference I can recall of carrying a spare cylinder.
Never thought about the safety aspect of a capped spare cylinder, what happens if it is dropped? Could be trouble.
If you are in a war; then, some safety gets tossed out because the odds are more with you if you're armed to the teeth but since this is a hobby/past time I think safety comes first. I still carry six in my percussion revolver but I failed to mention that I hunt in an area where lone hunters have been bushwacked- no kidding. When I get back to my vehicle I just stay in the brush a while looking things over before I emerge into the open. In any event, that's why I load six and it's the only time I carry a percussion. All other percussion shooting is at a range.

 

[jtmattison]

I can't believe there's 80+ posts in this topic.

It has kind of gotten ff

HD

 

[rebel727]

I'm happy to hear that. :bow: It restores my faith in miracles....and the Easter bunny. :rotf:

Whatever. :v

 

[rebel727]

Very few people intentionally try to mess up their gun by creating a chain fire.

Zonie I had chain fires galore when I first got tht gun. I would estimate several hundred of them. I used it almost every day under really rough conditions. The loading lever did break close to three years later but I can't lay all the blame on chains. I mostly blame me overloading the chambers and trying to force the balls down on too much powder. Other than that the gun suffered no damage from chains. It lost it's bluing pretty quick from the abuse and rough treatment and the hand eventually wore out but that's it. I still have it(it's the one in the holster I posted earlier) and it's still accurate. It even still has the original #9 nipples on it. Put #10 Remingtons on it, point the muzzle up and give it a lil shake and every one of them will fall off. This was the same gun I did the experiment with. The only thing is I don't have real bp. I used Pyrodex but I don't think real bp would have made any difference.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

There are cased sets still in existence, going back to the Paterson, containing spare cylinders. So some folks must have thought it worthwhile to carry spares now and then.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Real black powder is known to ignite more readily than the fake stuff....

 

[rebel727]

I've heard that too but I don't have any bp to experiment with or I would. I've also heard Pyro RS won't reliably work in revolvers but that ain't so either. It's about all I've ever used. BTW I did use Pyrodex P for the experiment.
I do know that with Pyro if I leave the lube off the balls or don't use wads I go back to having chain fires with that particular gun. I've tried my Pietta 60 Colt and Pietta 58 without lube or wads and didn't get any chains.
Sorry for getting off topic but it gets my dander up when armchair quarterbacks without first hand knowledge all tell me I'm wrong when I know I'm right. :v

 

[Zonie]

rebel727:
Pyrodex doesn't ignite unless a flame heats it to over 800 degrees F.
Real black powder will ignite at a little over 400 degrees F.

This is the reason Pyrodex (and the other psudo black powders) doesn't work worth a damn in a flintlock. Using Pyro in the pan is just asking for frustration begcause it won't light off even with a good sparking lock.
Using Pyro in the barrel and real BP in the pan to light it still seldom fires the main charge even though the pan flashes every time.*

IMO, the Pyrodex explains your lack of success in getting a chain fire to happen.

*Once in a while the Pyrodex will fire in a flintlock so don't any of you folks load up your flinter with Pyrodex and point it at something foolish. If your luck is like mine, that will be one of the few times the Pyrodex will fire.

 

[rebel727]

Maybe so. I'll concede the point for now. Only experience I had with a flinter was bad. That could prolly be attributed to lack of knowledge cuz I bought it when I was 13. Used real bp, heck that was all you could get back then. It would fire maybe once out of 30-75 tries.

 

[Poor Private]

Va.Manuf.06'
NO I don't do a ossifer impression. I stick with a private impression. I belong to a group that does Morgan Raiders 2nd. Kentucky so a we carry sidearms when we work with the cannon.(2 Mt. Howitzers), and another group that portrays the 1st. Michigan Infantry. A private impression is more versatile than an officer in my opinion. you can work a cannon, be infantry, be provost martials to name a few.
When I do carry a sidearm it is usually a 58 remy and an extra cylinder in a cylinder pouch on the belt. Yes all chambers are loaded on the Remy (has a safety notch), and the spare cylinder is loaded and capped :shocked2: . But you have to remember who has time to cap in a battle? And we are carrying oatmeal insteal of lead.
And who ever stated we are getting off of the topic -no we aren't. The heading was safety on a 51. We have discussed 5 or 6 chambers loaded, carrying extra loaded cylinders, holsters with hammer loops. Sounds to me like we are learning and teaching some valuable information to each other as well having some fun.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

This has been discussed over and over again: do chain-fires start at the front or the back of the cylinder. I recall it being a hot topic fifty years ago when I first fired a C&B revolver. These were original guns that had seen a lot of use, and they never once cooked off on us. The general consensus always was that if the chambers weren't out of round, the proper sized ball was used and a nice even ring of lead was shaved from the ball, it would be impossible to get a chain-fire started at the chamber mouth. In order for that to occur, the flash from the first chamber fired would have to melt the ball in the adjacent chambers and that just could not happen. That only left one place for the chain-fire to originate and using the proper size caps seems to be the best answer to the problem. Putting the hammer down on an empty chamber is a fine idea too, and keeping your thumb on the back of the hammer below the spur as you holster the revolver isn't a bad idea either. I'm especially careful to do this if I'm sitting in my armchair calling football plays....

 

[rebel727]

The general consensus always was that if the chambers weren't out of round, the proper sized ball was used and a nice even ring of lead was shaved from the ball, it would be impossible to get a chain-fire started at the chamber mouth. That only left one place for the chain-fire to originate and using the proper size caps seems to be the best answer to the problem.

I'm going to say this and then try to shutup on the matter. The gun I used may have out of round chambers but it carves a lead ring and is still one of the most accurate guns I have. Also remember I used #11 caps pinch fit on #9 nipples. #10 Remingtons will fall off so you can imagine how sloppy a fit the 11's are. Also back when I was originally having chain fires with it I used real bp, Pyro wasn't even dreamed up yet. Chambers were always overloaded because nobody told me about powder measures and it took me awhile to invent one. :rotf: Even once I did the balls were still loaded right at the very edge of the chamber mouth. I was prolly using 45 grs. of real bp or maybe more. I was frequently having to replace caps because they kept falling off no matter how much I squeezed them down. With the flash from all that powder and loose fitting or missing caps I never had a chain fire with it after I started lubing the balls. One of these days I'll find a way to get some real bp and try it again but I'm pretty sure the results will be the same.

 

[mykeal]

One of these days I'll find a way to get some real bp and try it again but I'm pretty sure the results will be the same.

Please don't do that.

Zonie has a very good point about intentionally causing chain fires. It just isn't worth it.

There are people who have posted on this forum that have experienced chain fires which very probably started from the rear of the cylinder. Your experiment does not prove them wrong, just as their experience does not prove you wrong. What we need is a little common sense, not more intentional abuse of our firearms.

Chain fires are chaotic events. By that I mean they are among the class of physical events that are predictable only by chaos theory because they depend on a very unpredictable combination of parameters existing at the same time. Empirical evidence gathering can never support or refute events that respond to chaos theory.

Use balls which shave a lead ring when loaded. Use a lubed felt wad or grease over the ball. Use well fitting caps that stay on, and cap all loaded chambers. Those steps are just good practice regardless of whether you believe chain fires are started from the front or back. There just isn't any good reason NOT to.

 

[rebel727]

Use balls which shave a lead ring when loaded. Use a lubed felt wad or grease over the ball. Use well fitting caps that stay on, and cap all loaded chambers. Those steps are just good practice regardless of whether you believe chain fires are started from the front or back. There just isn't any good reason NOT to.

I generally do all that except for the proper fitting caps on that one gun. Nobody makes #9 caps anymore so I have to pinch fit 10's which fit about as well as pinch fitting 11's on #10 nipples. Those nipples have been in there for 39 years I really don't see them coming out for replacement if anybody even makes nips to fit it.

 

[Tinker2]

I generally do all that except for the proper fitting caps on that one gun. Nobody makes #9 caps anymore so I have to pinch fit 10's which fit about as well as pinch fitting 11's on #10 nipples. Those nipples have been in there for 39 years I really don't see them coming out for replacement if anybody even makes nips to fit it.

I would think that if you shoot it much the 39 year old
nipples will burn out?

My first cap and ball revolver (1965) had #12 nipples
Had to replace mine many times, but I shoot mine
a lot.


Tinker2

 

[rebel727]

I would think that if you shoot it much the 39 year old
nipples will burn out?
Tinker2

No telling how many thousands of rounds I fired out of it in the first three years. I spent most of my money in powder and caps. After the lever broke I didn't use it much. In 76 it went into storage in my moms attic. Dug it out several months ago and fixed it. Except for the finish the nipples look as good as new. I've got a Cabela's Hawken that's had the nipple replaced more times than I can count and it hasn't had nearly the rounds fired through it that ol pistol has.