Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jtmattison, May 17, 2008.
I think you might be better off just throwing rocks!
I didn't call you stupid... in fact I have said nothing specific to or about you at all. If you take exception to what I've said, then maybe I'm hitting a little too close to the mark for you. I stand by what I said. To ignore the destructive potential from what is, after all, a dangerous weapon in order to fill all six cylinders because "they're there", or "because I've always done it and nothing's ever happened" is, in my book, setting the wrong priorities.
My interest is in keeping this sport safe so that it will be around long enough for my childern to enjoy. A loaded chamber is always potentially dangerous; an empty chamber is never dangerous.
Your remark was not at me personally, but at me generally, simply because I load all six. I have NO issue with you loading 5 and agree it is a measurable degree safer! But the across the board statement that I am risking the life of all those around me is :bull: !
You say yourself that you have no idea what actually happen, but it must be because he had all 6 loaded. Maybe there is much more to this incident you have not told us. At the very least you offer up that his Thoughtless stupidity was his practice of loading all 6.
I usually take exception when someone flings crud around and it lands on me, even if it is unintentional. As I said to Mykeal, I do respect your position and I really have no issue with it.
My job as a LEO is full of risk. I dont go into any risk blindly. I carry my weapon every day ready to shoot! There are many risks. Certainly my modern handgun is much safer than my Walker, but if what I am going to pack in the wilderness is capable of carrying 6, as long as my weapon can do so in a reasonably safe manner, I am certainly going to do so.
You speak of degrees of possible issues. It is remote that you will have an accidental discharge (AD) because all six are loaded, but it can happen. It is remote that you will need that 6th shot, but than can happen as well. You weigh the risk verses the gain and make your decision. GOOD. To run down me or any other because our calculations are slightly different assuming we have just put no thought into it and are just doing it "because we always have" is short sighted.
I agree we wont come to see eye to eye and hope we can agree to disagree with respect.
J.S., I've carried six in C&B and SAA's for almost 40 years. Never had an AD. Not saying I won't or it can't happen but I'm not going to change. If I blow my leg off or wind up dead for being sooo stupid well, hey that's my bad. Nobody to blame but me. I drive an 18 wheeler. I feel like that's 100,000 times more likely to kill me than loading six in a revolver. If you don't want to hunt or shoot with me that's fine by me. I don't remember asking you to anyway.
Of course, no one knows exactly what went wrong with the guy in Mr. Colts story but I suspect he loaded and capped all 6 chambers and then lowered the hammer on one of them before holstering his gun.
If this was the case, the slightest blow to the hammer would fire the gun.
When at the range, I have loaded and capped all 6 chambers but I shoot the gun immediately.
If I intend to carry my pistol in a holster, I load only 5 chambers and carry the gun with the hammer down on the empty.
Speaking of this, I suggest that anyone who plans on loading only 5 that they take a slow careful look at the caps before lowering the hammer.
If someone is careless they can load and cap only 5 chambers and then mistakenly lower the hammer on a capped chamber.
Carried this way in the hand or in a holster, the gun is an accident waiting to happen.
Not responding to you Zonie just tapping in here....
There seems to be a bunch a OSHA employees on this forum nowadays. :rotf: We ain't smart enough to take care of ourselves, we need somebody else to do that for us.
Now THAT is funny. :blah:
You got that???
I do the same, Zonie. 6 at the range and 5 in the field. I mostly shoot a single shot muzzleloader anyway, so 5 rounds is far more firepower than I usually have available. Considering that most .44 revolvers are considered too light for deer, it sure wouldn't be much of a bear defense gun, so 5 or 6 don't much matter. I use it in the field for small game or a coupe shot if needed.
I'm not worried about what you do to yourself... it's the folks around you that you're endangering with your actions. Who's to say that, when that round goes off, you don't hit your kid walking beside you, or your hunting partner... or even your dog. If it was just you concerned, then I'd say, go ahead... do what you want to do. But when there are others involved, and you're carrying a dangerous weapon, then they have to become the priority, not what you want.
And yes, the guy in the story I related most likely did have the hammer down on the cap, and not on the safety notches.
Lots of folks here have given good reasons not to load six. Give me as many good reasons as to why it's necessary to do so.
All I need is one reason. One more round ready to go. The same reason I carry a gun off duty that I am ALMOST assured to never need :thumbsup:
Just to clarify, I only have my c&b Walker loaded at all for two reasons. 1) I am at the range enjoying a day of shooting. 2) I am out in the woods. In such a case my walker is in a hip holster pointing straight down.
I can think of no other time I even have my walker loaded. All my day to day carry is with a modern weapon. Always one in the pipe by the way :v
I suppose the old-style 'cavalry' holsters with the flap over the butt would be the safest since there was brush that the men rode through. myself around my campsite and even trail walking I feel safe useing the 'safety notch' on my '58 or ROA. so far so good, but this discussion has picqued my awareness of neccessary safety precautions.
That so-called cav. flap was actually used by most infantry officers and some sargents during the civil war. So a precedance has been set. So feel free to use it walking. :thumbsup: I always carry a side arm in a holster with either a flap buttoned up or a strap over the hammer thats buttoned. The only "cowboy" holster I use is with my modern cartridge revolver that I use at the range and it even has a tiedown for the hammer. So come on guys lets get a life and talk about something important like how many BP pistols do you have and can you hit the broad side of a barn with it.
I will always carry the max quantity in my pistol or revolver as long as I have a safety notch, and or a strap or flap to cover the hammer.
If you don't like it too bad, grow up and start a tread on pull of your trigger now thats something thats a safety issue. Hair triggers are like women you never know how much will set em off!!
"pull of your trigger now thats something thats a safety issue."
This crew don't need any tips on worrying about stuff. They'll be jumpin' on this like a chicken on a June bug. You watchem. :rotf: :rotf:
Ah, let's see - is your Walker loaded when you put it in the holster, or do you load it afterwards? How about when you take it out of the holster when you're done carrying - do you unload it first?
Perhaps you missed my point about the dangerous time being the transition into the holster. You might want to go back and read that. I suspect you won't, however.
Does your modern weapon have a safety, and do you carry with it off? How about a transfer bar?
I didn't realize some of you have the point that the shooter could be tired and carelessly holster the gun in such a manner that the trigger snares on the clothing and rotates the gun enough to fire the next chamber. I'll go try that out......
Okay, I'm strapped up and ready to go. It's cross draw cause that's a pretty common way if you are on a horse. I'm rubbing the hammer spur against my garb and I don't want to rip up my clothes too bad but I can't get the hammer to cock or even move.
Now the holster's over around on my right, well that won't work, I have to turn the gun side ways to get the hammer to rub against my clothes and then it doesn't fit into the holser and my right hand is so high in trying to get the gun in to the holster that it is pretty hard to get the hammer near my clothes.
I'd have to say if such an accident could occur it would have to be when the holster is in a cross draw position, the shooter is dead tired or highly excited, and SLAMS the gun into the holster AND something more than regular clothes are being worn, such as a shoulder strap across the front of the chest.
Now here's the kicker, something like that probably isn't going to happen when you are first loading and holstering the gun. It would be after the gun has been fired at something and the shooter is in an excited condition. In both situations loading only five would have nothing to do with a potential hazard since the gun has now been fired and the next chamber is loaded. Also, in such a situation you would holster the gun on the just fired chamber, not waste time putting the hammer on a pin.
But...all said....I have to agree that unless you are carrying the gun for self defense in a situation where a sixth round would be of value, just loading five is inherently a safer practice.
Obviously you have not read all of my posts because I have not only agreed with some of the points you have made, I already gave an answer about putting the loaded gun in the holster. Please tell me you are not serious about asking whether I load after I holster....and why would I carry a holstered empty gun. If my explanations need to be simplified I can certainly do that, but I guess I figured if I told you I was going to be carrying my gun in a holster loaded on all six while in the woods, you could figure from that....it was holstered loaded :youcrazy:
Your other question is more reasonable as I am sure there probably are some who keep their c&b loaded at all times. I do not. When I am done at the range, I leave it unloaded. When I am carrying in the woods, I find an appropriate place to take six shots at a target before going home for the day.
If you are familliar with a glock, then you understand the safety and know there is no off or on, it is in the design.
My 357 ruger again has no safety and I keep it loaded on all 5. SP101 only carries 5.
Beretta one in the pipe safety on.
Please read all of my responses before you assume I have not read yours.
When I was a kid I put a 58 Remington thru just about every possible scenario you can imagine. Running thru the woods,jumping over stuff, crawling thru thick brush, falling down, rolling over etc, etc, etc. All of it with six loaded in a cut down holster with a hammer thong. This one to be precise.
Pistol and holster
I did not recall, and I went back and looked and could not find, a post from you about the transition issue. The post I responded to sounded to me like you considered only the 'in holster' condition. Apologies if I've misunderstood something you had said earlier; I just missed it.
I was not serious; it was sarcasm, for emphasis. You seemed to be focused on being safe while in the holster only, and I'm being intentionally anal about movement into the holster. Obviously you know the gun is loaded when you're putting it in the holster, but all you spoke about in that post was the holstered condition; it seemed like that's all you had considered.
Really, all I'm trying to do here is to get people to NOT focus on the holstered situation. The dangerous time is when the gun is in transition, yet I see lots and lots of people saying "my holster is safe" as if that's good enough.
Some people have gotten it, and said "I understand, yet for other reasons I choose the slightly less safe path". Good. They've listened and they've thought about it. I can't ask any more than that. Others continue to say, "It hasn't happened, therefore it won't", or "My holster makes it safe", or "Why not just go all the way and carry it empty", all of which are essentially "heads in the sand" positions. I can ask a great deal more of those people. We all should.
Yes, I'm familiar with those guns. The practice of carrying those fully loaded does not relate to a percussion revolver as the designs, as you have pointed out, are wholly different. That was my point in singling them out. The implication in our post was that somehow carrying those fully loaded justified carrying a percussion revolver fully loaded, which is incorrect, and I don't believe you really meant it that way.
:snore: I'm getting tired guys, can we take a rest on this for a while? :surrender: :haha:
I think this is all very simple - either you accept the elevated risk of using the half notch or not.
Me? Not. I am not using my cap and ball revolvers for combat or self defense. Even if I were using for self defense, I'd still most likely not want the additional risk.
I say if you are that concerned with having extra rounds, carry a backup - with one cylinder empty....
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