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Round Ball or conacal

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I, am new at this so , please bear with me as I am trying to learn. How does one know what to shoot? Round ball or conacal. What rate of twist is the best for which one? Thank you for your help.
 
1:60/66 is RB. 1:32 is conical. 1:48 is a compromise and shoots both. Just a generalization. Not written in stone.
 
you need the faster rate of twist in the barrel to stabilize a longer bullet, like a conical from tumbling.

Fleener
 
If you intend to hunt there was some thought that conicals went through and through and used all their energy beyond the deer, elk or Buick where the round ball tended to ricochet around in the animal causing the animal to drop in its tracks where the conical would allow the animal to run some distance before dropping.
I believe this ws controversial when mentioned a few years ago.
As far as rate of twist. the conical has more lead bearing on the rifling and can stand a quicker twist. Roundball seems to do well with a one in 48 inch twist and is alleged to do better with an even slower rate of one turn in 62 inches.


That's a very brief answer to your questions.

Dutch

I, am new at this so , please bear with me as I am trying to learn. How does one know what to shoot? Round ball or conacal. What rate of twist is the best for which one? Thank you for your help.
 
How does one know what to shoot?

The best advice is to shoot what is most accurate in your rifle. The next best advice is to use that load within sensible parameters. Sometimes it comes down to availability and ambition. Can you purchase one or the other locally? Are you willing to order a variety and wait for them to be delivered. Can you make your own? It would be helpful to know exactly what type of rifle you have. If you cue off of other peoples experiences with the same rifle you can usually find a starting point. For instance, if a lot of people have good accuracy using a certain thickness patch material it would be prudent for you to at least start with that material. If a lot of people are have good accuracy with a particular conical in that rifle then you might want to try that first. I have personally had one 1:60 rifle that did not want to be accurate with a patched round ball after trying many combo's of components, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars. Someone said "try these" and gave me a particular conical. With the same load of powder I use in most of my other rifles I suddenly saw fantastic accuracy from that rifle all the way out to 100-yards! So much for the 1:60 can't shoot a conical theory. I have two 1:70 twist rifles that are my most accurate and they happen to use the same exact ball, patch and powder/charge. That is lucky but convenient! Then there's a 1:48 rifle that will shoot a PRB accurate with a heavy powder charge but shoots a certain conical just as accurate with a moderate powder charge. Most people would say that generally it should have been more accurate with a lighter powder charge for the PRB. Not with this rifle. Each is a thing unto itself.
 
Yes the question is not "What should I use", but "What does my rifle like?" Most barrel makers tailor the twist rate for what will work the best for most people.

So some misconceptions of which you need to be aware.....
Twist rate vs. round ball or conical....the facts are, that it's more than the twist rate, but also the depth of the grooves and the width of the grooves in the barrel compared to the lands that help to determine if a barrel will shoot patched-round ball, or conical, or both. ;)

1:48 was marketed as a "compromise" twist rate starting in the 1970's by Thompson Center with their Hawken and Renegade rifles. In fact 1:48 twist was popular in rifles made before the first widely used conical bullet, "the minie ball" became a widespread military bullet. So you may find, as I have in two rifles (one in .54 one in .40), that a 1:48 twist barrel will shoot both conicals and patched round ball well. The Pedersoli .54 Jaeger rifle has a 1:24 twist rate, yet it shoots round ball well ;)

Slow twist rates usually don't shoot conical bullets well. I have a rifle with a 1:60 twist, and one with a 1:56 twist that don't shoot conicals well. Yet as one reply mentioned above, he has no problem with a conical bullet in his slow twist rate barrel, and historically the 1853 Enfield "3-band" rifle was/is .58 caliber and originals as well as repros have an extremely slow 1:78 twist, but were used for sniping in the ACW, and today are used for target shooting of conical bullets. ;)

Skipping, meaning the patched round ball isn't gripped by the grooves in the barrel well and so an improper spin, or no spin, is imparted to the round ball was a concern in the 19th century (especially with manually rifled barrels), and today might be a concern with very stout loads in a reproduction barrel, but most folks don't use loads that heavy. ;)

"Energy" is used by a lot of folks with modern projectiles, as it matters a bit to them..., BUT for the slow velocities of the muzzleloader, it's sometimes misunderstood. For example...if two identical bullets strike two identical deer in identical spots, and one bullet exits the deer on the other side, but the other bullet lodges just under the opposite side skin, BOTH bullets used the same "energy" to reach identical locations under the skin..., while the bullet that exited continued on, using a bit more energy to push through the skin opposite the side of impact. (The deer would not know the difference) The same two bullets..., if one exits the animal at 100 feet per second and the other bullet exits at 200 feet per second, the damage will be so similar to not matter, and as I wrote before the deer won't know the difference. Some folks think for some reason more damage is done to the animal if the bullet doesn't go completely through the animal, or that there is some advantage from the bullet barely exiting the animal compared to one that flies another fifty yards. ;).

Some stuff that sometimes is a factor:
Patched round ball will often give you less felt recoil, especially from a slower twist barrel, than will a heavier concial bullet launched with the same powder charge as the patched round ball. The conical has more mass and Newton's 3rd law of motion applies :D. Some fellows like to use what I consider a heavy powder load (in excess of 90 grains) as well as a conical bullet, the results of which will most definately give more recoil. I've never heard of, nor seen, any study that showed that either projectile on impact was vastly superior to the other. If it's accurate while at the same time has enough velocity to push the bullet to where it needs to go to harvest the deer, it doesn't matter.

On paper, a patched round ball is more easily deflected than a conical bullet. In the real world, don't try to hack through brush with a conical to hit that deer, nevery try to do it with a round ball. Try to avoid blasting even tiny twigs or leaves no matter which bullet you use.

Conical bullets were invented for fast reloads of military rifled muskets in combat conditions. Today, YES you can get a much faster reload using a plastic speed loading tool that holds a conical bullet and a pre-measured powder load. IF you make an accurate shot the deer will be down before you can reload and make that second shot. If you made a poor shot, but hit the deer, the deer will like be gone from your view before you can reload and make that second shot, so a slower reload, and tracking will need to be done. So don't choose the conical for ease of loading.

So you will be spending a lot of range time, which is a good thing. You will find a good load for your rifle from the bench at the range, and then you'll need to practice a bit in different hunting stances. Then you'll be ready.

LD
 
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The first question to get an answer to is "What rifle am I going to shoot?" Next the caliber and rate of twist need to be known. Then you need to determine the answer to "What am I going to shoot at?" The next question is "What distance am I planning to shoot most often?"

I really can't just tell you whether to shoot round ball or conical bullets unless I have more information. The choice depends so much on what are the initial conditions and the ultimate purpose. Otherwise any answer is pure speculation and may not be the help you are seeking.
 
YOU REALLY MAKE THE POINT ABOUT EACH RIFLE HAVING ITS OWN DESIRES AND NOT THE THE ONE LOAD FITS ALL THEORY.
I AD TWO .45'S THAT DID DO EQUALLY WELL WITH THE SAME EXACT LOAD AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS very STRANGE.

DUTCH

The best advice is to shoot what is most accurate in your rifle. The next best advice is to use that load within sensible parameters. Sometimes it comes down to availability and ambition. Can you purchase one or the other locally? Are you willing to order a variety and wait for them to be delivered. Can you make your own? It would be helpful to know exactly what type of rifle you have. If you cue off of other peoples experiences with the same rifle you can usually find a starting point. For instance, if a lot of people have good accuracy using a certain thickness patch material it would be prudent for you to at least start with that material. If a lot of people are have good accuracy with a particular conical in that rifle then you might want to try that first. I have personally had one 1:60 rifle that did not want to be accurate with a patched round ball after trying many combo's of components, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars. Someone said "try these" and gave me a particular conical. With the same load of powder I use in most of my other rifles I suddenly saw fantastic accuracy from that rifle all the way out to 100-yards! So much for the 1:60 can't shoot a conical theory. I have two 1:70 twist rifles that are my most accurate and they happen to use the same exact ball, patch and powder/charge. That is lucky but convenient! Then there's a 1:48 rifle that will shoot a PRB accurate with a heavy powder charge but shoots a certain conical just as accurate with a moderate powder charge. Most people would say that generally it should have been more accurate with a lighter powder charge for the PRB. Not with this rifle. Each is a thing unto itself.
 
How does one know what to shoot?

Lots of friendly advice from good folks so far. But, I don't believe your question has been answered. My answer: You will never know what to shoot until you decide what you want to shoot and why. This ml game is primarily a history preserving avocation. Within that history are many variations. By far, the most popular choice is a patched round ball rifle. Others who take up this game just want to shoot. Opinions about round ball vs. bullet will never stop. My history preserving and shooting passions are drawn to flintlock rifles that shoot patched round balls well. All that said, I also believe this is a "do yer own thang" game. Stick around the forum a while and wait a few weeks before making a decision. Whatever you choose, enjoy and be safe.
 
I have personally had one 1:60 rifle that did not want to be accurate with a patched round ball after trying many combo's of components, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars.

That's just insane. After a hundred bucks or two I would have relegated the gun to a decoration piece!
 
Whether a PRB or conical is used depends on the bbl bore.....twist is a factor along w/ the depth of the grooves.

Shooting a conical in a bbl w/ .015 deep grooves { many PRB bbls have this} allows a whole lot of gas blowby...very inefficient. A conical requires a bore w/ a maximum of .004 deep grooves plus a twist of approx. 1:48 max depending on the caliber and weight of the conical. I stopped using conicals in my TC Hawken because the conical moved off the powder w/ a clean bbl.....had to constantly check when hunting.

Built a .54 Hawken for PRB {1:66} and it has done well on both deer and elk. The bbl is a Rice and the grooves are .016 deep which I think is excessive because to try and completely seal the bore a much thicker patch would have to be used which requires too much force to load. So a .020 thick patch is used which allows some blowby.

So....a bbl should ideally be chosen for either a conical or PRB , although a bore for conicals sometimes will shoot both accurately as does my TC Hawken......Fred
 
While many modern made guns are designed to look one way but perhaps shoot another way that’s not the way the old guns are.
I’m a round ball guy. There is no game in North America I wouldn’t tackle with a round ball ( though brown polar and grizzly bears I would want a modren back up big bore pistol with me). That said from middle 1840s on some historic guns were made for conical. So, beat me with some wet buckskin for saying this, some types of guns you need to shoot conical through.
However it’s a well known fact that real mean shoot smoothies and conical don’t work in them real well.
Tongue in cheek aleart for the thin skinned among us.... no I don’t really think real men only shoot smoothies.
 
I have a 1840 Springfield that I shoot both round ball ammo and conical shots from, I'd say the accuracy for 3 lands and and grooves is better for the conical, as Dave had mentioned the progressive depth and width of the military style rifling is why conicals were designed; battlefield quick reloading and reliable accuracy and less powder fouling issues. The round ball ammo really is only slightly more accurate than a smoothbore and that's with a tight fit.
 

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